Quick Battle without opposition?

[LutzP]

New to the game, please forgive me if I did not find any similar thread. In a QB on tiny/tiny/Veteran I got about 2.5 recon platoons available (which seems pretty normal when choosing "Infantry Only") against random German forces. In a brave fight against boredom I took all objectives and never saw any opposition … never? Well, a 3-soldier HQ unit appeared in the end (first saw them after 12 of 30 minutes, and then again at around 20).

Is this normal? Or just possible, but unusual? Or should I sue BF because they take me for an idiot who could not manage more opposition ? (They may be right, but how doo they know?)

 

[womble]

36 minutes ago, LutzP said:

New to the game, please forgive me if I did not find any similar thread. In a QB on tiny/tiny/Veteran I got about 2.5 recon platoons available (which seems pretty normal when choosing "Infantry Only") against random German forces. In a brave fight against boredom I took all objectives and never saw any opposition … never? Well, a 3-soldier HQ unit appeared in the end (first saw them after 12 of 30 minutes, and then again at around 20).

Is this normal? Or just possible, but unusual? Or should I sue BF because they take me for an idiot who could not manage more opposition ? (They may be right, but how doo they know?)

 

It's perhaps not "normal", but, at least last time I checked, it was "within the bounds of possible expected behaviour". It looks like maybe the QB AI force selection routines haven't been tweaked in the years I've been away. It used to be common enough that the AI picked some subset of immobile assets (like AA or other large towed equipment) and put it somewhere a bit useless, due to random "AI group" assignment. And the problem is exacerbated with small battles because you don't get many quad AA cannon for the points allowed, so if the "platoon" is deployed in a field with no useful LOS, it might as well not be on the board at all.

Have you clicked "View Map" at the bottom of the results screen and checked what the AI actually had available and how it had been deployed?

[Edit: Oh, and what kind of engagement was it? Meeting Engagements are particularly vulnerable to this sort of shenanigans, since the AI forces have to move, and in Infantry Only, the heavy equipment can't have the prime movers it needs to limber up and attempt to take ground...]

Edited June 4, 2021 by womble
Afterthought

[LutzP]

Thanks for the reply! Yes, I forgot - it was a meeting engagement. And I did not view the map, but I am certain that was the one and only unit, coming (as usual) from the opposite corner and dawdling around in the woods for almost 20 minutes. Well, it was not too many hours of my life lost, and then of course we always ask for "realism" – a real soldier would have considered this best possible result, I guess, and here I stand whining …

I assumed the AI would internally try to achieve a certain balance in buying points (even for a random setup on both sides), but maybe it does and just allows a rather large variance. Or this sole HQ element was particularly valuable, like knowing the complete batallion deployment plans – and I just shot them !

[womble]

4 hours ago, LutzP said:

Thanks for the reply! Yes, I forgot - it was a meeting engagement. And I did not view the map, but I am certain that was the one and only unit, coming (as usual) from the opposite corner and dawdling around in the woods for almost 20 minutes. Well, it was not too many hours of my life lost, and then of course we always ask for "realism" – a real soldier would have considered this best possible result, I guess, and here I stand whining …

I assumed the AI would internally try to achieve a certain balance in buying points (even for a random setup on both sides), but maybe it does and just allows a rather large variance. Or this sole HQ element was particularly valuable, like knowing the complete batallion deployment plans – and I just shot them !

It's worth looking, if you have a save of it (anytime during the game, just go in and hit "Ceasefire"), and remain even slightly curious, because the AI gets the same number of points to spend as you, in an ME, so there should have been something there. What it doesn't do is buy a "balanced force". There's no way a single HQ team could be pumped up to the same number of points as your "short company"..,

[LutzP]

Just now, womble said:

It's worth looking, if you have a save of it (anytime during the game, just go in and hit "Ceasefire"), and remain even slightly curious, because the AI gets the same number of points to spend as you, in an ME, so there should have been something there. What it doesn't do is buy a "balanced force". There's no way a single HQ team could be pumped up to the same number of points as your "short company"..,

I get the same information in the AAR, don't I? It reported 3 Germans killed and 0 on everything else on the German side.

[womble]

44 minutes ago, LutzP said:

I get the same information in the AAR, don't I? It reported 3 Germans killed and 0 on everything else on the German side.

I guess if they were crewed things, it'd still say "nn troops okay" for the crews if you never even found 'em. Very strange. It ought to spend all the points (maybe a few leftover that it couldn't figure out how to spend).

Still and all, the "platoon of flak cannon/heavy ATG with no transport" for a Meeting Engagement used to be a thing, and it sounds like the AI force picker still "needs some work". Maybe someone who's not as out-of-the-loop as I am can confirm whether there was ever any work done to mitigate it, but a common resolution was to have human-picked sides for both you and the AI opponent. You'd minimise the loss of Fog of War by using "random" for the AI side, but only giving it a very quick glance to make sure it's not something pointless. Or pick a good force for the AI, then save the game and leave it for a month or so, by which time all the other games you've done similar with will mean you're not as conscious of the OpFor as you would be if you played it immediately.

[Bulletpoint]

4 hours ago, womble said:

There's no way a single HQ team could be pumped up to the same number of points as your "short company"..,

Spent all the points on off-map arty maybe? And/or air assets it couldn't call in because it's an HQ unit, not an FO.

A "cannon company" fits this description. An HQ and offmap 105's.

Edited June 5, 2021 by Bulletpoint

[LutzP]

3 hours ago, womble said:

… a common resolution was to have human-picked sides for both you and the AI opponent.

Ah, good idea. No problem with that, a) I don't need a month to forget things and b) I don't think it is not too unralistic to have some idea of who the opposition is if you are less than 1 kilometre away. Anyway, I just do this to prepare for some gaming against a live opponent.

Quote

A "cannon company" fits this description. An HQ and offmap 105's.

Could be, I guess. I should have let one of them live and ask

[womble]

2 hours ago, Bulletpoint said:

Spent all the points on off-map arty maybe? And/or air assets it couldn't call in because it's an HQ unit, not an FO.

A "cannon company" fits this description. An HQ and offmap 105's.

Good point.

And: "Oh dear."

[Kevin2k]

1 minute ago, womble said:

Good point.

And: "Oh dear."

I had a less severe but similar annoyance in cold war, past days. Where the computer force selection picks M106 mortar carriers with a minimum range of 770 meters, on a smaller map with no practical way to fit that minimum range.

Fortunately, the extremely weird force selection described in the original post is something I have not seen myself.

[womble]

40 minutes ago, Kevin2k said:

I had a less severe but similar annoyance in cold war, past days. Where the computer force selection picks M106 mortar carriers with a minimum range of 770 meters, on a smaller map with no practical way to fit that minimum range.

LOL.

And I say again: "Oh dear."

The unwillingness of BFC to address issues like this is frankly incomprehensible to me. All assertions that the primary target market demographic for the game is RT HvH are specious, given that the derivation of a few rules on force selection should be a trivial endeavour, and would broaden the potential market demographic. I'd rather they just said "Nah, we don't wanna."

[Bulletpoint]

36 minutes ago, womble said:

LOL.

And I say again: "Oh dear."

The unwillingness of BFC to address issues like this is frankly incomprehensible to me. All assertions that the primary target market demographic for the game is RT HvH are specious, given that the derivation of a few rules on force selection should be a trivial endeavour, and would broaden the potential market demographic. I'd rather they just said "Nah, we don't wanna."

I see BFC as this old guitar player who has been playing for decades but still only makes enough to pay the rent and a bottle of booze once in a while.

He has a great style, but is not going anywhere with it - because he just can't be bothered to tune his guitar.

[kohlenklau]

You must train your frau or fraulein to select the enemy forces properly. Show her how to do it. Test her a few times until she has it down...good balanced force. she can tweak the enemy experience and maybe throw in a little nasty surprise.

For the real QB, you go off to the kitchen and get a nice cold beer. She has it all set for you when you get back.

Fog of war maintained and she feels useful.

 

[Erwin]

3 hours ago, kohlenklau said:

Fog of war maintained and she feels useful.

Probably easier to train your cat to do it.

[kohlenklau]

My ex-wife used to do it for me. It worked out good. I mean the battles, not the marriage!

[LutzP]

The idea as such is not bad, but she has a certain squeamishness when it comes to select forces that will destroy me. No idea why. Could just be an aversion to wargames in general, I guess. Glad to say that the marriage part works a lot better.

But I think another way to catch extremes would be to let the AI choose the forces, save the game and cease fire. That would tell me how many enemy soldiers are there, but no other details. At least I would be warned of very funny AI before I go through all the planning.

Edited June 6, 2021 by LutzP

[kohlenklau]

or this idea...somewhat modified for your case...peaceful spouse not involved.

RANDOM QB BATTLE VARIETY PACK

You can very quickly make a pack of quick battles. Say 10?

You as human will purchase your force to play. Always the same. Important.

Always the same map for this variety pack.

You as human then purchase the enemy. YOU CAN MAKE VARIETY HERE AND A OPPONENT. SIMPLE 2 OR 3 PART FORCE.

Start the QB and immediately save at the deployment turn. Save with a random file name with QB. uhhhh. QBXFGAHSJ

Do it again ALL THE SAME EXCEPT FOR THE ENEMY FORCE.

DO it ten times. It goes fast. QBAJIOPLM  QBNHACSVS etc...

Then you could do ten with a different SAME force for the next ten.. A different map. Get it?

Then you must forget and relax and go off and enjoy life.

Then you can open these saved game variety packs and reach in for one and play them out with maybe some chance of not remembering your enemy force.

[LutzP]

Perfect. Thanks a lot!

… and since the community works for free, also much cheaper than BF fixing QB plausibility .

Edited June 6, 2021 by LutzP

[kohlenklau]

You're welcome. 

Oh, I ran a few QB's (just the initial purchasing and set up process) just as I was thinking about this issue. I had forgotten but there is a button "suggestions" but as we all said, it picked the infantry unit and air support. The air support line even says "air controller (FO) required" or something like that. Sure enough, the infantry unit had no FO in the game code purchasing subroutine. WTF!

Have fun!

 

[Heirloom_Tomato]

On 6/4/2021 at 4:25 PM, LutzP said:

New to the game, please forgive me if I did not find any similar thread. In a QB on tiny/tiny/Veteran I got about 2.5 recon platoons available (which seems pretty normal when choosing "Infantry Only") against random German forces. In a brave fight against boredom I took all objectives and never saw any opposition … never? Well, a 3-soldier HQ unit appeared in the end (first saw them after 12 of 30 minutes, and then again at around 20).

Is this normal? Or just possible, but unusual? Or should I sue BF because they take me for an idiot who could not manage more opposition ? (They may be right, but how doo they know?)

 

If you happen to remember which QB map it was I will double check to see if anything silly is going on with the map itself and flag it for a future patch.

[Vacillator]

I'm a bit late on this discussion but it reminds me of the thread I posted about a CMFB quick battle where the AI selected 9 or 10 Sherman Flails and one or two infantry units.  The flails advanced with their turrets facing backwards.  My Jagdtiger, Jagdpanther and accompanying friends had an unsurprisingly easy time of it.  While I had fun, I suppose I felt that my careful setup and movement was a waste of time, even though the map was very good.

Other QB experiences have been better, and in fact some have been memorable for good reasons...

[LutzP]

7 hours ago, Vacilllator said:

While I had fun, I suppose I felt that my careful setup and movement was a waste of time, even though the map was very good.

Exactly my feelings

Quote

If you happen to remember which QB map it was I will double check to see if anything silly is going on with the map itself.

I believe it was "2019 Rural Farmland 2m" - the file is there in QB maps folder but funnily enough I do not see it in the scenario editor. I guess, though, that it was not a problem with the map as I played it again with more success.

BTW, is there anything like a "map atlas", i. e. a visual overview of existing maps?

Edited July 1, 2021 by LutzP

[Kevin2k]

10 hours ago, LutzP said:

BTW, is there anything like a "map atlas", i. e. a visual overview of existing maps?

Here is most of it, by sttp:

https://community.battlefront.com/topic/126849-qb-map-pdfs/

I was working on those of CMSF2 myself, almost finished.

[LutzP]

Great, thanks a lot! I was about to start something like that myself, but this saves a lot of time which I can use excellently to get beaten again and again