CMCW points and rarity table

[Bufo]

I have created a spreadsheet to show how much points IFVs and MBTs cost and how rare they are / rarity point cost.

There are three tabs for loose/standard/strict rarity levels.

You can access it here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1GGWyVuMdVJEuxZzBaMaqOnye-aBdKrc7G_aX6Y_1zDk/edit?usp=sharing

It looks like this:

Edited June 1, 2021 by Bufo

[Bufo]

What is interesting is that you can see that the cost of the T-80 tanks (all 3 models), the T-64B and T-64B1  (but not T-64A) are increased from year 1980. I think this means that the ammo they fire is upgraded for years 80-81-82, but it is not written in the manual.

 

For all other vehicles the price stays the same throughout 79-81, just the rarity (may) change.

Edited June 1, 2021 by Bufo

[domfluff]

Great stuff, thank you.

[Amedeo]

3 hours ago, Bufo said:

What is interesting is that you can see that the cost of the T-80 tanks (all 3 models), the T-64B and T-64B1  (but not T-64A) are increased from year 1980. I think this means that the ammo they fire is upgraded for years 80-81-82, but it is not written in the manual.

I doubt this is the case since developers and beta testers explicitly stated (if I'm not mistaken) that a given tank type always sports the same ammo loadout. I think it's also an engine-feature issue (cannot change the loadout of a vehicle without changing the its name). For the T-72A and the T-72A (1980) the loadout is different but, in that case, the "name" is different too.

[Redwolf]

49 minutes ago, Amedeo said:

I doubt this is the case since developers and beta testers explicitly stated (if I'm not mistaken) that a given tank type always sports the same ammo loadout. I think it's also an engine-feature issue (cannot change the loadout of a vehicle without changing the its name). For the T-72A and the T-72A (1980) the loadout is different but, in that case, the "name" is different too.

Well, the name of the ammo doesn't change with the year change (I just checked).

However, how do we know that the ammo doesn't change even though keeping the same name?

[Amedeo]

20 minutes ago, Redwolf said:

Well, the name of the ammo doesn't change with the year change (I just checked).

However, how do we know that the ammo doesn't change even though keeping the same name?

I presume that with "name" you're referring to "type". Anyway, we do know that the ammo doesn't change because BFC said that a given vehicle can have only a single specific version of a given type of ammo, and something that has a specific name is the same "object" regardless of the year. That is a tank armed with the 105mm M68 gun might have both APDS (say M728) and APFSDS (say M735) ammo, but it cannot have two different kind of APFSDS rounds (say M735 and M774). It's a game-engine thing. Thus the only way to change the specific model of a given type of ammo is to have an identical tank with a different name - e.g. T-72A and T-72A (1980) - yes, I know that the 1980 model sports also additional minor differences (for example smoke grenades) but this is irrelevant to the issue at hand. 

[Redwolf]

4 minutes ago, Amedeo said:

I presume that with "name" you're referring to "type". Anyway, we do know that the ammo doesn't change because BFC said that a given vehicle can have only a single specific version of a given type of ammo, and something that has a specific name is the same "object" regardless of the year. That is a tank armed with the 105mm M68 gun might have both APDS (say M728) and APFSDS (say M735) ammo, but it cannot have two different kind of APFSDS rounds (say M735 and M774). It's a game-engine thing. Thus the only way to change the specific model of a given type of ammo is to have an identical tank with a different name - e.g. T-72A and T-72A (1980) - yes, I know that the 1980 model sports also additional minor differences (for example smoke grenades) but this is irrelevant to the issue at hand. 

All I'm saying is that a vehicle's inability to change properties without name change doesn't mean that ammo cannot change its properties while keeping the displayed name.

"APFSDS" in a T80 in 1979 might not represent the same round as "APFSDS" in a T80 in 1980. As you say, these are aliases for more specific real-world rounds.

[Amedeo]

1 hour ago, Redwolf said:

All I'm saying is that a vehicle's inability to change properties without name change doesn't mean that ammo cannot change its properties while keeping the displayed name.

"APFSDS" in a T80 in 1979 might not represent the same round as "APFSDS" in a T80 in 1980. As you say, these are aliases for more specific real-world rounds.

All I'm saying is that they explicitly said this is impossible because of how the game-engine is coded. 

[Redwolf]

11 minutes ago, Amedeo said:

All I'm saying is that they explicitly said this is impossible because of how the game-engine is coded. 

Saying that for vehicle names doesn't necessarily make it true for ammunition names, though.

[Amedeo]

12 minutes ago, Redwolf said:

Saying that for vehicle names doesn't necessarily make it true for ammunition names, though.

I'm not saying that it is true because it's, in principle, impossible otherwise, I'm saying this is the case because of what the developers and beta testers said about the current game-engine.

Please, check this thread:

 

in particular, this post:

and (the last sentence of) this one.

 

[Bufo]

Obviously the model is not the same despite they are saying the engine cannot have different models with the same name. Otherwise it would cost the same.

Or there is a bug.

Edited June 1, 2021 by Bufo

[Redwolf]

52 minutes ago, Amedeo said:

I'm not saying that it is true because it's, in principle, impossible otherwise, I'm saying this is the case because of what the developers and beta testers said about the current game-engine.

Please, check this thread:

 

in particular, this post:

and (the last sentence of) this one.

 

I read it and there is nothing in there that says that a certain ammunition name cannot mean different things in different years.

Just that vehicles can't have different sets of such ammunition without a name change.

[Amedeo]

 

39 minutes ago, Redwolf said:

I read it and there is nothing in there that says that a certain ammunition name cannot mean different things in different years.

Just that vehicles can't have different sets of such ammunition without a name change.

Yes. And this answers the original question: is the T-80B in 1980 equipped with a better APFSDS round than in 1979? No, because it won't be possible with the current game engine without renaming it, say, T-80B (1980).

Moreover, they wrote in the manual that all T-80s are armed with 3BM22 APFSDS, so I wonder what this "better" APFSDS round might be...

Anyway, this is what I got; If I'm mistaken, maybe someone of the devs will chime in to clarify things.

[Vanir Ausf B]

I don't think there is any requirement that the different models have different names in the purchase screen. In the past they were usually named differently but that convention has been followed inconsistently in CW. For example, the manual says AH-1F and AH-1S Cobras get upgraded TOW missiles in 1981 but they are named the same as the 1980 versions.

The reason the prices change for the above mentioned tanks in 1980 is they get 3BK18M HEAT ammunition to replace the 3BK18 round. In addition, I think the T-64B and B1 (but not the A) also get 3BM22 APFSDS that year. The T-80 has 3BM22 in all years.

EDIT: Now that I look at it, I think the reason the T-72A gets a (1980) label in 1980 is because the previous T-72A model is still available in 1980. In the case of the T-80 and T-64 the new ammo versions completely replace the older versions.

Edited June 2, 2021 by Vanir Ausf B

[arkhangelsk2021]

What I'm interested in is: T-64B being "common" and T-64B1 being "uncommon". Granted, the book does say 4200 T-64Bs were built to 1400 T-64B1s, but B1 is just the B without the very expensive missiles. Any B can turn itself into a B1 functionally just by not carrying missiles and ripping out the GTN-12 box containing the guidance antenna, which is a lot easier than procuring more of those expensive missiles.

Also, why is the M60A3 and the M60A3(TTS) the same price and rarity? What's the incentive to choose the non-thermal version then?

[Bufo]

19 minutes ago, arkhangelsk2021 said:

Also, why is the M60A3 and the M60A3(TTS) the same price and rarity? What's the incentive to choose the non-thermal version then?

I have reported this in the bug/glitch topic, but apparently only the M60A1 versions got fixed. (their prices were also messed up). Unfortunately the M60A3 remains like this, with zero reason to choose the non TTS one.

Edited June 2, 2021 by Bufo

[Amedeo]

12 hours ago, Vanir Ausf B said:

I don't think there is any requirement that the different models have different names in the purchase screen. In the past they were usually named differently but that convention has been followed inconsistently in CW. For example, the manual says AH-1F and AH-1S Cobras get upgraded TOW missiles in 1981 but they are named the same as the 1980 versions.

The reason the prices change for the above mentioned tanks in 1980 is they get 3BK18M HEAT ammunition to replace the 3BK18 round. In addition, I think the T-64B and B1 (but not the A) also get 3BM22 APFSDS that year. The T-80 has 3BM22 in all years.

EDIT: Now that I look at it, I think the reason the T-72A gets a (1980) label in 1980 is because the previous T-72A model is still available in 1980. In the case of the T-80 and T-64 the new ammo versions completely replace the older versions.

Point taken for the AH-1F/S case. Although I'm still skeptical about the 3BM22/3BK18M upgrade for T-64Bs in 1980. The manual and the patch readme don't explicitly specify years, although both the manual and the readme show a couple typos, so it might also be the case.