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Black Sea v2.16 is now available!


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On 6/9/2021 at 5:58 PM, BFCElvis said:

I don't know if I would describe it as "sitting on it". This is our first Steam patch. I have no idea of what happens between when we send it to Slitherine and when it goes on Steam. Slitherine could very well be testing what we sent them, as we test our "Battlefront" patches. They had asked us for updates on it before we sent it to them......so I don't think "sitting on it"  (which I take as letting it sit in a virtual corner untouched) is how I would describe it. My post was only meant to say that we've completed our part of the process. 

So now its been three and half weeks since the patch was made available, but there is still no patch for Steam. Could BFC inquire with Slitherine to determine what is holding it up? My experience (not, admittedly in the field of gaming software) is that when a matter involves multiple entities progress can be blocked by strange misunderstandings. Often a phone call or an e-mail to the right person can do wonders.

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21 hours ago, SgtHatred said:

Hopefully future patches won't take so long. The delay was pretty absurd given how simple the process is.

It sounds like you have more experience with sending patches for a game through a 3rd party to put on Steam than I do for you to refer to it as absurd. This is my first time, so I have no idea how absurd it is or isn't. I'll defer to your experience at having done it. 🙂 

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1 hour ago, BFCElvis said:

It sounds like you have more experience with sending patches for a game through a 3rd party to put on Steam than I do for you to refer to it as absurd. This is my first time, so I have no idea how absurd it is or isn't. I'll defer to your experience at having done it. 🙂 

Don't know man, other Slitherine games get updated the same time on both steam and on slitherine store.

Ask other developers for some advices.

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2 minutes ago, Bufo said:

Don't know man, other Slitherine games get updated the same time on both steam and on slitherine store.

Ask other developers for some advices.

Yes, but that is no indication of when they get the patches from the game developer, right?

As far as I know the patch is not yet on the Slitherine or Matrix's site. The Matrix site shows the game version as v2.15. So, based on what you're saying, the Matrix site and Steam will both have v2.16 available at the same time. 

Like I said, this is our first patch for Steam. It could very well be the normal turnaround time or it could be a "pretty absurd" amount of time, like SgtHatred says. 

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2 hours ago, BFCElvis said:

Yes, but that is no indication of when they get the patches from the game developer, right?

As far as I know the patch is not yet on the Slitherine or Matrix's site. The Matrix site shows the game version as v2.15. So, based on what you're saying, the Matrix site and Steam will both have v2.16 available at the same time. 

Like I said, this is our first patch for Steam. It could very well be the normal turnaround time or it could be a "pretty absurd" amount of time, like SgtHatred says. 

It's painfully simple. I could could teach my dog to do it. Probably why there is so much garbage clogging up Steam these days.

Anyway, it looks like they made a bit of progress today.

https://steamdb.info/app/1502380/depots/

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1 hour ago, SgtHatred said:

It's painfully simple. I could could teach my dog to do it. Probably why there is so much garbage clogging up Steam these days.

Anyway, it looks like they made a bit of progress today.

https://steamdb.info/app/1502380/depots/

What is painfully simple? Uploading a file? I don't doubt that. What is done with a file from the time Charles creates it and sends it to them and when it's ready to be uploaded is another thing. Uploading a file to the servers we use are painfully simple. Preparing the file so the the end user can use it is something different. 

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2 hours ago, BFCElvis said:

What is painfully simple?

The process of uploading, distributing, and patching games with Steam. They've made it pretty simple, they even do delta update for you so you don't have to shovel the entire game down the pipe for every update.

2 hours ago, BFCElvis said:

What is done with a file from the time Charles creates it and sends it to them and when it's ready to be uploaded is another thing. Uploading a file to the servers we use are painfully simple. Preparing the file so the the end user can use it is something different. 

Uploading changes to steam and then deploying them to users is like a 3 click process. There is no magic or complexity here.

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6 hours ago, SgtHatred said:

The process of uploading, distributing, and patching games with Steam. They've made it pretty simple, they even do delta update for you so you don't have to shovel the entire game down the pipe for every update.

Uploading changes to steam and then deploying them to users is like a 3 click process. There is no magic or complexity here.

I understand that. That isn't what I'm saying. The files that are created by us and sent to Slitherine are not "Steam ready". Just like the Battlefront builds that we beta test are not "public release ready" until the installers and anti-piracy software etc are wrapped around the builds. We don't create the "wrapped" version for Matrix and Steam releases. Slitherine takes the files that we send them and prepares them (and tests them) for both the Matrix version and the Steam version. IN other words, it isn't a matter of Slitherine just uploading what we send them. The have to prepare the files so that they can be installed on the games. If you read any of our pre-release earlier this year....that is when something goes from a Beta version to a FC (Final Candidate) and RC (Release Candidate) version. A RC version is eventually what gets renamed and released to the public. The same wording isn't used but essentially the FC version is what gets sent out and needs to be a RC version before it can be simply uploaded. We don't have anything to do with the Steam and Matrix installers. We don't touch them. If that isn't getting through then maybe this is a better way to explain it......I can take the Battlefront v2.16 patch and upload it to Steam but when you open your game on Steam it will not install on your game. It does not have the attached software that installs it. I can upload it to the Matrix patch whatever but it won't install on your Matrix version of the game.

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7 hours ago, BFCElvis said:

I understand that. That isn't what I'm saying. The files that are created by us and sent to Slitherine are not "Steam ready". Just like the Battlefront builds that we beta test are not "public release ready" until the installers and anti-piracy software etc are wrapped around the builds. We don't create the "wrapped" version for Matrix and Steam releases. Slitherine takes the files that we send them and prepares them (and tests them) for both the Matrix version and the Steam version. IN other words, it isn't a matter of Slitherine just uploading what we send them. The have to prepare the files so that they can be installed on the games. If you read any of our pre-release earlier this year....that is when something goes from a Beta version to a FC (Final Candidate) and RC (Release Candidate) version. A RC version is eventually what gets renamed and released to the public. The same wording isn't used but essentially the FC version is what gets sent out and needs to be a RC version before it can be simply uploaded. We don't have anything to do with the Steam and Matrix installers. We don't touch them. If that isn't getting through then maybe this is a better way to explain it......I can take the Battlefront v2.16 patch and upload it to Steam but when you open your game on Steam it will not install on your game. It does not have the attached software that installs it. I can upload it to the Matrix patch whatever but it won't install on your Matrix version of the game.

Are you suggesting that you make a patch, test a patch, deploy a patch to users, then send it to Slitherine and they repeat the testing process? That doesn't seem reasonable. I have both CMSF2 and CMBS on both Steam and through Battlefront.com and I can see the differences in file structures. It isn't much. Slitherine moved the userdata into the install folder (bad move) and added their launcher while removing Battlefront's incorrectly configured uninstaller (not useful for the Steam version).

I've been doing software deployments far more complicated than some game for more than a decade now. I've seen processes take weeks when they should take minutes before. If I was the King of Slitherine and the process to take Battlefront's output and turn it into a Slitherine Installer/Steam product wasn't something that can be done by an intern in an afternoon, heads would roll into the unemployment line. Sounds like Slitherine needs a solid kick in the ass. A month to add their wrapper and drm? I don't believe it. I'm sure it sat in someone's inbox for most of that time.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, SgtHatred said:

Are you suggesting that you make a patch, test a patch, deploy a patch to users, then send it to Slitherine and they repeat the testing process?

There are 5 executables for each game:
BFC - Mac

BFC - Windows

Matrix

Steam

Internal Use

What would be unreasonable would be to throw whatever wrapper is being added onto an executable and not test to make sure it works before releasing it to the public. That sounds sloppy to me. But maybe that's just me.....wanting to confirm that something works before giving it to customers.

As I said, I don't know how complicated or time consuming it is to take the Steam executable and prepare it for Steam. I don't know their current workload for this and all of their games. And if this has been in a queue for things that need to be done. I don't know if this is the normal amount of time we should expect between getting them the files and when the patches are released or if this is "pretty absurd". What I do know is that nobody knows but them. Not you, not me. And we are the anomaly.  No other game designer in their stable is allowed to sell their games on their own site. So, if we didn't have that arrangement there would be no situation where a patch is released on the game designers site but not on theirs. If we had the same arrangement as all of the other developers no one here would even be aware that a patch was being worked on.  

EDIT: I've already wasted enough time discussing something that neither of us has a clue about. Time to move on. I have said that I don't know why it has taken this long. You act as if you know why but actually have as much of an idea as I do. Which is none.

Edited by BFCElvis
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1 hour ago, BFCElvis said:

 

What would be unreasonable would be to throw whatever wrapper is being added onto an executable and not test to make sure it works before releasing it to the public. That sounds sloppy to me. But maybe that's just me.....wanting to confirm that something works before giving it to customers.

 

If Slitherine needs to spend a month testing whatever their DRM/launcher issues are before publishing then their process is bad or their design is faulty.

1 hour ago, BFCElvis said:

EDIT: I've already wasted enough time discussing something that neither of us has a clue about. Time to move on. I have said that I don't know why it has taken this long. You act as if you know why but actually have as much of an idea as I do. Which is none.

I know it is a matter of will, not technology.

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1 hour ago, SgtHatred said:

If Slitherine needs to spend a month testing whatever their DRM/launcher issues are before publishing then their process is bad or their design is faulty.

Ugh. Who on this blessed planet said they were testing and installer for a month?

It is now clear that you're just trying to make stuff up to be rude about. Man, that's a hard way to go through life, brother.

But you have given me a good idea. We should coordinate our patch releases and hold ours back until they are ready. It would avoid pointless nonsense like this.

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15 minutes ago, BFCElvis said:

But you have given me a good idea. We should coordinate our patch releases and hold ours back until they are ready. It would avoid pointless nonsense like this.

This is a good idea, but I am sure it won't be popular here. 

 

I disagree with the assertion that I've been rude, but I will stop here.

 

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36 minutes ago, SgtHatred said:

This is a good idea, but I am sure it won't be popular here. 

 

I disagree with the assertion that I've been rude, but I will stop here.

 

The rudeness is how one looks at life. Something doesn't go as someone expects one person will say "I don't know enough about their process. Maybe this is normal for them." And another person says "this is a 'pretty absurd' amount of time" and "this is something an intern could do in an afternoon" and "Sounds like Slitherine needs a solid kick in the ass." Completely ignorant about what the process is but quick to get outraged and cast judgement without even the tiniest bit of actual knowledge. As far as I'm concerned Slitherine does not need a kick in the butt. They do what they do, the way they've been doing it and have been very successful. That's why we have partnered with them. And we're very happy with how things have gone so far.

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