Thermal blocking smoke?

[FogForever]

Ok, I just had a M901 fire off several Tows, pop smoke and pull back.  The next turn, another M901 appears to have multiple clear definite targets in sight but cannot get a LOS to fire apparently due to the smoke emitted by the other M901.  So did the US have thermal blocking smoke during this timeframe.  I assumed not as I thought Soviets weren't using thermals.  Also why do have a clear identified targets in sight but no target LOS to any target?   What am I missing here?  

[SgtHatred]

I saw this explained in another thread. The ability to guide TOWs through smoke isn't something that happens until the TOW 2. With an ITOW or TOW, you can see the enemy, but you cannot shoot a TOW at it.

[FogForever]

Ummm...well I didn't tell the M901 to pop smoke.  In fact, I didn't see a shot fired at the M901.  Regardless, it was a major mistake because the smoke is drifting across my front and now I can't shoot at masses of tanks rapidly closing the range.   I guess I will have to drive through the smoke to close the range so I can shoot again but not a very good idea because the soviet tanks are pretty close now.  

This auto popping of smoke may not be a good idea if it allows Soviet tanks to close the range with impunity.  I had the advantage but not now.

 

[SgtHatred]

Well, that may make sense on a global level, but if you are an M901 commander and you are pretty sure soviet tanks are pointing their big guns at you, you'd hit the smoke launchers too.

[FogForever]

Maybe I missed it but I don't think anyone has even shot at him yet.  But then also if we use that logic... that Soviets are pointing guns at them...., then everyone would run.  And I imagine the infantry would be the first to go.  Sometimes you need to shoot when you have the advantage and especially if by not shooting, the advantage shifts to the soviets.   I guess for the moment, there is not much choice but to make the best of it.

Edited May 13, 2021 by FogForever

[FogForever]

What is odd is I have had several other M901s fire also and none of them popped smoke or retreated.  One actually had 2 shots taken at him and he never budged and continued firing.  I think that one has taken out 5 T-55s, I think T-55s.

[Seasalt21]

Were they in the process of reloading? I've notice the perform that particular behavior when they fire both tows and are still in line of sight of a soviet vehicle.

[akd]

Generally they will fire both TOWs then pop smoke and pull back, but I have seen variations.

[FogForever]

Really the problem is the smoke.  It takes awhile to disappear and in those minutes, the soviets are on top of you.   And if the wind is wrong, it blocks others from firing as well.

[IICptMillerII]

After the M901 has fired both its missiles and is reloading, if it can still see enemy targets (specifically tanks) it will generally execute a reload drill, which is popping smoke and reversing. 

It is a case of a Tac AI one size fits all solution, that does not always fit the situation. But I do not think it is the worst thing in the world. By and large I would rather have the behavior in the game than not. It is also worth mentioning that after a reload drill, the M901 should be moving to an alternate firing position to confuse enemy gunnery. Constantly moving back up to the same firing position is not the best idea. I know it can be annoying, but there it is. 

[Thewood1]

14 minutes ago, IICptMillerII said:

It is also worth mentioning that after a reload drill, the M901 should be moving to an alternate firing position to confuse enemy gunnery.

Is that part of the game or are you talking about IRL.  Does the TacAI pop smoke and then relocate to a new position?

[IICptMillerII]

5 minutes ago, Thewood1 said:

Is that part of the game or are you talking about IRL.  Does the TacAI pop smoke and then relocate to a new position?

The Tac AI will pop smoke and reverse all on its own. The player follow up to that should be to then relocate the vehicle to a new firing position. 

[Thewood1]

OK, so its just reversing, not find a secondary position.  I thought maybe a big piece of micromanagement was removed.  One can always hope.

[FogForever]

Now that I understand it, I see how to use it tactically in this particular scenario.  I think it does have an impact on deployment and maybe even sequence of engagement in anticipation of expected smoke.  Clearly I don't want a unit positioned such that it pops smoke early and blocks LOS for other units.  

[Thewood1]

In all the reading I did on the TOW thermal/smoke discussion, I also noted that TOW launchers had to stay at least 300m from each other.  Otherwise there was a significant risk of a launcher missile/track mismatch which would lead to missiles tracking from the wrong tracking unit.  So IRL, there's already incentive to mind spacing.

Thats in TOW and ITOW.

Edited May 13, 2021 by Thewood1

[Dr.Fusselpulli]

Isn´t the TOW wire guided? How can a wire guided missle mismatch with the wrong tracking unit?

[ng cavscout]

Corrections and adjustments are monitored by tracking current missile position using an IR emitter or beacon on the back of the flying missile, then corrections are transmitted through the site, as I understand it.

So, the emitter has to be seen, which doesn't happen through smoke.

Edited May 13, 2021 by ng cavscout

[Thewood1]

The tracking unit has to see the flare to track as mentioned above.  If two TOWs are fired and both come into the FOV of one tracking unit, there is a good chance the tracking unit will "capture" either the wrong missile or both.  The tracker might start giving corrections to the wrong missile, because to it, there is no difference in the flares.   The wire is only there to provide positioning feedback to the tracker and for the tracker to send corrections to the missile.

In TOW 2, the flare/beacon flickers at a known rate and sequence as a solution to the crossed-capture issues and the countermeasure of a target shining a bright IR light at the tracker.  In later versions of TOW 2, I think wire is out altogether and RF is used.