Withdraw Order

[Ryujin]

With some of the discussion of using tanks and hull down positions I was try to think of something simple to improve controlling armor. One thought is maybe an order that is essentially the anti-hunt, where  instead of stopping movement on spotting an enemy, it starts reverse movement (or just quick move for infantry). So you could for example give a move order up to a ridge line and then a "withdraw" order back behind cover. The vehicle will move to the move order and sit there until it spots something. Once a target is spotted it'll complete any current action like a short stop to fire, then reverse to the withdraw order location. You could queue a couple moves and withdraws to have the vehicle pop up, shoot, and reverse away. Might also be useful in ambushes or with a hunt order then withdraw to allow scouting. 

[Dr.Fusselpulli]

That would be fancy. But something similar is already possible. Just not in this perfect timing. You can be in a hull down position somewhere, pause for a couple of seconds, and then reverse to a hidden position. Then "fast" or "quick" drive" into the hull down position again, and give a pause to the vehicle to give it a chance to fire, and reverse again, and continue to do this in a circle. This works quite fine for tanks, but unfortunately not for ATMG vehicles. As the engine checks if a vehicle is driving by checking if the vehicle still has waypoints in queue. So it doesn´t fire with this tactics. But it works for tanks or MG vehicles.

[liamb]

TacOps used to allow you to set SOP per unit. IIRC the options were:

Stop, reverse & pop smoke (or a combination) if spotting an enemy or if fired upon. 

[Redwolf]

Just now, liamb said:

TacOps used to allow you to set SOP per unit. IIRC the options were:

Stop, reverse & pop smoke (or a combination) if spotting an enemy or if fired upon. 

 

[Ryujin]

Yeah more general behavior settings would be nice, but new orders are the most likely thing to be doable in the current tech/UI. 

[Chibot Mk IX]

we got to live with what we get. 

the "fast" , "pause", "reverse" order combo needs a lot of micromanagement, but it will be a powerful tool when use it correctly 

 

in the age of Javelin , a 10 seconds pause then move away is the only way to survive in front a defense with couple Javelin teams. (Besides fall back and call in an Artillery barrage)  

 

 

in CMCW, shoot & scoot is needed when you are facing a long range ATGM threat .

 

 

**********************************************************************************************

 

Regarding ATGM vehicles,  in WEGO mode there is a way to make it shoot & scoot.  You can get it into the fire position at the second half of the turn, let it fire then reverse back in the next turn cycle . For example , you can give a 30s pause then fast into the fire position 30m in front of the ATGM Vehicle . Assume it gets into the fire position at 00:40s , then it takes 10 seconds to finish the aim and fire process.   Reverse it back at the new turn cycle. 

 

 

 

Edited May 6, 2021 by Chibot Mk IX

[Ryujin]

9 minutes ago, Chibot Mk IX said:

we got to live with what we get. 

However it feels like there's some reasonable improvements they could make within existing tech. It seems worth it to try some new orders considering how awkward the time based work arounds are and how frequently needing to fire and reverse comes up. 

I've used the pause based approach a lot, but it's really not user friendly depending on guessing the right timing to spot and engage.

[MikeyD]

Vehicle will automatically try to back away if they're facing a superior opponent they can't scratch. TOW missile vehicles do this regularly while the launcher reloads. But this has spawned multiple complaints. The vehicles don't always back away to the safest locations. 

[Chibot Mk IX]

11 hours ago, Ryujin said:

However it feels like there's some reasonable improvements they could make within existing tech. It seems worth it to try some new orders considering how awkward the time based work arounds are and how frequently needing to fire and reverse comes up. 

I've used the pause based approach a lot, but it's really not user friendly depending on guessing the right timing to spot and engage.

indeed,  couldn't agree more.

[Dr.Fusselpulli]

11 hours ago, Chibot Mk IX said:

Regarding ATGM vehicles,  in WEGO mode there is a way to make it shoot & scoot.

That works indeed if you are facing ATGM vehicles. If you have a vehicle which needs to shoot ATGMs by itself, this manouver doesn´t work at the moment because of an engine limitation:
 

 

[luigim]

On 5/6/2021 at 2:42 AM, Chibot Mk IX said:

we got to live with what we get. 

the "fast" , "pause", "reverse" order combo needs a lot of micromanagement, but it will be a powerful tool when use it correctly 

 

in the age of Javelin , a 10 seconds pause then move away is the only way to survive in front a defense with couple Javelin teams. (Besides fall back and call in an Artillery barrage)  

 

 

in CMCW, shoot & scoot is needed when you are facing a long range ATGM threat .

 

 

**********************************************************************************************

 

Regarding ATGM vehicles,  in WEGO mode there is a way to make it shoot & scoot.  You can get it into the fire position at the second half of the turn, let it fire then reverse back in the next turn cycle . For example , you can give a 30s pause then fast into the fire position 30m in front of the ATGM Vehicle . Assume it gets into the fire position at 00:40s , then it takes 10 seconds to finish the aim and fire process.   Reverse it back at the new turn cycle. 

 

 

 

how to give a move command, then pause, the move, then pause?

 

If I press P I have only the pause at the start of the waypoint and not in between

[Halmbarte]

On 5/5/2021 at 3:53 PM, Redwolf said:

 

I’ve wanted exactly this since I started playing CM. Leave everything as is for most of the units but, for example, recon units need the ‘if spot enemy reverse or reverse and pop smoke’. 
 

As is, my recon guys make a spot while hunting and then sit, exposed, until explosively disassembled. 
 

H

[chuckdyke]

11 minutes ago, Halmbarte said:

my recon guys make a spot while hunting

If something doesn't work, you try something different. It depends or you play the AI or a human player. The real bingo moment is when your recon hits an AI trigger. It is obvious when all of a sudden things start to happen.  Hunting is not really for scouting vehicles; I gave up hunting with them a long time ago. One on overwatch the other dashing across it takes the TacAI some time to react. Experiment with tactics. Suggestions take a long time to process with the testers. Just sharing my experiences, take notice of YT videos experienced players make some good stuff. @Josey Wales and Armchair General presents Combat Mission Normandy Tactics Episode V - YouTube 

[A co]

Luigim, you can click on the waypoint to select it, then give the pause commands. The number of seconds in the pause will appear above the waypoint. It's very useful. You can also give fire commands or covered arcs at waypoints. The 'face' command will act as a 'cease fire' at waypoints as well.

Edited May 7, 2021 by A co
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