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Has the old Oplot spotting bug been patched?


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Posted (edited)

I was playing the Ukraine campaign and I noticed my Oplots had problems spotting and engaging enemy armour from a distance on the 2nd mission.

I’d set up 2 Oplots on the main road facing the Russian positions to lock it down, and an enemy T-90 rolled around the corner and down the road. Despite having 3 Oplots pointing down it, and despite the enemy tank being on the move on an open road, the enemy T-90 consistently spotted and fired first. Even after taking fire, the Oplots still hadn’t made the spot. 

I did some googling and found this old thread. I’m wondering now:

1) Was this old spotting bug patched out?

2) Is it true that unbuttoned tanks spot better than buttoned ones in CMBS?

Edited by badgerbadger
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6 hours ago, badgerbadger said:

1) Was this old spotting bug patched out?2) Is it true that unbuttoned tanks spot better than buttoned ones in CMBS?

It depends, as all things complicated.

General rule, the newer the tank better it does bottomed up.

It is situational, unbuttered does better close by and with wider field of view. On the other hand if the commander seat has thermals and there is smoke in the line of sight it is far better to be bottomed up.

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I found this compilation in my "Useful Info folder:

BUTTONED SPOTS BETTER:

Here is a possibly incomplete list of vehicles that spot better while buttoned all the time (but only to the front of the vehicle).

M1A2 Abrams

T-90AM

BM Oplot

M2A3 Bradley

M3A3 Bradley

M7A3 B-FIST

Khrizantema

Tunguska

I don't know for certain, but I think it very unlikely that vehicle crews have night vision goggles, so nearly all vehicles should stay buttoned in low light conditions.

 

UNBUTTONED SPOTS BETTER:

Recon-specific M1127 Stryker with

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  • 1 month later...
On 5/2/2021 at 7:27 PM, badgerbadger said:

I was playing the Ukraine campaign and I noticed my Oplots had problems spotting and engaging enemy armour from a distance on the 2nd mission.

I’d set up 2 Oplots on the main road facing the Russian positions to lock it down, and an enemy T-90 rolled around the corner and down the road. Despite having 3 Oplots pointing down it, and despite the enemy tank being on the move on an open road, the enemy T-90 consistently spotted and fired first. Even after taking fire, the Oplots still hadn’t made the spot. 

One thing that may be effecting spotting for the Oplots (and one of my biggest gripes with this campaign) is that for whatever reason the designer decided to make a lot of the crews green. Seriously, it’s supposed to be the best equipment they can field but the just grabbed some dudes off the street to drive them around?!?!?!?!

 

Beautiful scenario design but horrible decision for experience lvl’s. It plagues the US campaign as well. One of my biggest gripes in an otherwise awesome game; high tech equipment that is operated by some random hillbillies off the street. Very unrealistic and not likely at all.

 

I am wondering if the oplots have been patched though. If not why not?

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7 hours ago, FogForever said:

So Oplot tanks are definitely working ok?  I hate to commit the time into an Oplot scenario if they aren't working properly.

Run a quick test but yea when I tested I did not get that constant rotation from the commander 

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On 6/9/2021 at 10:50 AM, zmoney said:

One thing that may be effecting spotting for the Oplots (and one of my biggest gripes with this campaign) is that for whatever reason the designer decided to make a lot of the crews green. Seriously, it’s supposed to be the best equipment they can field but the just grabbed some dudes off the street to drive them around?!?!?!?!

I guess the idea here is that given how few there are in Ukraine (Never have been a lot of Oplot), nobody is familiar with the platform.

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13 hours ago, Artkin said:

I guess the idea here is that given how few there are in Ukraine (Never have been a lot of Oplot), nobody is familiar with the platform.

In summer 2014 many tank crews were really "dudes, grabbed from the street", but such equipment like Oplot would be given to the best contractor crews. When BTR-4 came to service in 2014 their drivers initially were not military, but civil test-drivers of tank plant.  

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15 minutes ago, Haiduk said:

In summer 2014 many tank crews were really "dudes, grabbed from the street", but such equipment like Oplot would be given to the best contractor crews. When BTR-4 came to service in 2014 their drivers initially were not military, but civil test-drivers of tank plant.  

And who wouldn't agree with this? The most familiar people belong on that platform. This is smart. Here in the US that would never fly. Lol.

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On 6/13/2021 at 6:52 AM, Haiduk said:

but such equipment like Oplot would be given to the best contractor crews.   

I’d like to call again for BFC to patch this campaign now that we have the subject matter expert weighing in. It really ruins an otherwise great campaign. The Oplot should either be crewed by reg or vet crews.

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some thoughts:

1. I ran a bunch of tests recently testing various UKR and RUS tanks head to head. I did not notice anything unusual with Oplot spotting, so I do not see an apparent bug.

2. I actually played and restarted the 2nd UKR campaign mission a few times recently as well to test out various approaches. Oplot spotting is pretty much luck of the draw, sometimes they spot first and quickly kill the RUS tanks, some times the RUS tank spots first. Again, I have not seen anything that would suggest a bug with the Oplot sensors.

3. "Green" is not hillbillies off the street, "Green" troops in CM are basically troops fresh out of basic training  or reservists just called back to service. Nothing wrong with Green troops if handled properly. However, as I recall, most of the troops in the UKR campaign are regulars with a mix of green?

 

Edited by Sgt Joch
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@Sgt Joch I don’t mind that green troops are included in the campaign, in fact I believe it is most likely realistic for the infantry or other basic units. My gripe is only with the Oplot crews being green. The Ukrainians can only field a few of these tanks and so like Haiduk says these would only be given to their best troops. 

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8 hours ago, Sgt Joch said:

some thoughts:

1. I ran a bunch of tests recently testing various UKR and RUS tanks head to head. I did not notice anything unusual with Oplot spotting, so I do not see an apparent bug.

2. I actually played and restarted the 2nd UKR campaign mission a few times recently as well to test out various approaches. Oplot spotting is pretty much luck of the draw, sometimes they spot first and quickly kill the RUS tanks, some times the RUS tank spots first. Again, I have not seen anything that would suggest a bug with the Oplot sensors.

3. "Green" is not hillbillies off the street, "Green" troops in CM are basically troops fresh out of basic training  or reservists just called back to service. Nothing wrong with Green troops if handled properly. However, as I recall, most of the troops in the UKR campaign are regulars with a mix of green?

 

Did you use the Oplots with the commanders turned in or turned out?  I noticed problems on the Shield of Kiev (IIRC) where they seemed terrible at spotting while turned in.  I'm still on Black Sea 1.04 so I can't test the current version.

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22 minutes ago, fireship4 said:

Did you use the Oplots with the commanders turned in or turned out?  I noticed problems on the Shield of Kiev (IIRC) where they seemed terrible at spotting while turned in.  I'm still on Black Sea 1.04 so I can't test the current version.

Always buttoned. Spotting has not changed if you want to run tests, I may run some myself.

Edited by Sgt Joch
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7 hours ago, zmoney said:

@Sgt Joch I don’t mind that green troops are included in the campaign, in fact I believe it is most likely realistic for the infantry or other basic units. My gripe is only with the Oplot crews being green. The Ukrainians can only field a few of these tanks and so like Haiduk says these would only be given to their best troops. 

Just checked a save game, the mix of Oplot crews are 80% regulars and only 20% green, which seems fine to me.

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2 hours ago, Sgt Joch said:

Always buttoned. Spotting has not changed if you want to run tests, I may run some myself.

If spotting hasn't changed since 1.04 then I will assume the bug (if it is a bug) is still there, as it seemed to be garbage when I last used the Oplot, not to mention losing their main gun at the first sniff of enemy fire.  I'd guess there is some invisible geometry responsible, making the gun larger than it is or something.  It seems to be an engine thing at the moment, I remember from the Red Thunder demo mission "Monster Mash", the Panthers would loose their main guns at the drop of a hat.  I mean if there is a reason for it, fine, but it seems to affect some tanks and not others.

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just did a quick test in 2.16, 7 Oplot vs 7 T90AM, regulars, day clear, buttoned, stationary, facing each other at 2500 meters.

all spot one tank within 2 to 20 seconds, most around 12 seconds. I don't see any noticeable difference between the Oplot and the T90AM.

I don't see any bug with spotting by the Oplot. If someone wants to run an actual test and they have something that can be reproduced that shows a bug, we will be glad to take a look at it, otherwise this issue is closed.

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11 hours ago, Sgt Joch said:

I don't see any bug with spotting by the Oplot. If someone wants to run an actual test and they have something that can be reproduced that shows a bug, we will be glad to take a look at it, otherwise this issue is closed.

OK, didn't realise you were acting in an official capacity.  I will finally be able to use Steam again later this month so can try something other than 1.04.  Until then I gave the mission (the first in the Shield of Kiev Campaign) another quick spin. 

The tank platoon consists of BM Oplot (APS) x4, two of which are green, two of which are regular.  They are up against something like 5 BMPs, some in hull down positions amongst sparse trees.  I guess I was just expecting them to spot faster at 300 meters with thermals.  It wasn't as bad as last time I played (ragequit with tanks having lost multiple main guns and several vehicles immobilised by farmers fields), but im not sure it's right either.

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Well I tried the mission again with the current Steam patch, and the spotting is still pretty dire, for what to my eyes should be easy spots (BMPs amongst sparse trees or partially hull down, 1000-300m).  I could be a peculiarity with the mission/map, there is a downhill slope and the trees make it harder to see until you get to the lower ground again, however that should work both ways.  It could be one of those weird visual things in CM where a field of wheat that looks low is actually high enough to block your view, but again that should work both ways.  Something was going that I don't have a good handle on, as at some points there was a marker for a long while without a confirmation, and on moving my guys would suddenly get a spot on another vehicle.

Two tanks lost their main guns too, one via hits to the mantlet and both with 30mm fire it seemed to me, possibly to the tube also but the mantlet is where I spotted decals.

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