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The Schizophrenia of the Tac AI


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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, chuckdyke said:

In the game I took fire 2 men were wounded. Did all the right things, when I seized the building, the fire came from didn't find any of the enemy. How long does the game display fallen enemy? It is helpful to get intel. 

It always displays them so long as your troops can see them. The bodies never disappear unless the enemy re-takes the position and performs buddy aid.
Most likely the enemy exited the building and are now hanging around in the backyard, or they said, "Screw this!" and took off running somewhere else.

Edited by General Jack Ripper
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6 minutes ago, General Jack Ripper said:

Screw this!" and took off running somewhere else.

One explanation the estate was shelled by 122mm artillery. An IS2 fired the place into a rubble, before my platoon did their assault. Nothing to show for it, I had 2 wounded scouts. 

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1 minute ago, chuckdyke said:

One explanation the estate was shelled by 122mm artillery. An IS2 fired the place into a rubble, before my platoon did their assault. Nothing to show for it, I had 2 wounded scouts. 

The easiest way to clear enemy out of buildings is to apply high explosive to any and all suspicious rooms, floors, and doors. :lol:

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#1
Boss: We got 4 Abrams and 4 Bradleys just behind this ridge in line abreast, scouts already spotting the other side and have picked out targets. Only a few APCs and infantry ATGMs. Just a demo scenario.

We got thirty two pairs of IR enhanced eyeballs searching, 4 120mm guns, 8 TOWs, 4 HMGs, 4 25mm 200rpm autocannons set to airburst ready to rain hell on anyone foolish enough to show themselves. 

Company, advance to hull down and engage! Rock and roll!

Pixeltruppens: LASER WARNING! Pop smoke! Back up! Whew, that was close.

Boss: Could you at least not rotate before you back up so the formation doesn't get jumbled up? Now I have to put it in a line again.


#2
Boss: Your safe behind this building blocking LOS from three enemy squads across the street. Now go in and take up positions.

Pixeltruppen: But there's no door on this side, we'll have to and walk around to the opposite side to go in the front door. Since there's not a lot space between buildings we'll have to go single file around the perimeter...

Boss: [removed by moderator]

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On 5/1/2021 at 6:34 PM, Ultradave said:

It's already been improved. That behavior has been programmed out. RT is the last to receive this update. And while it didn't happen as much in RT, during playtesting I was facing some Russian troops in a  farm complex who suddenly rushed toward me. That was before the same fixes that the rest of the games already had were applied as part of the update containing RT. BN was by far the worst affected of this, and I think the consensus is that troops behavior now is much improved and more what you'd expect.

If you ARE still seeing this somewhere, please try to duplicate and provide a save. It shouldn't be happening any more so if it is, it should be investigated.

Dave

This is great news! I guess the first thing I should do is check for any engine updates and get them downloaded and installed. And I shall definitely be in touch with saved data if I see it again. Interesting that BN was worst affected. I guess the hedgerows disoriented the pixeltruppen, or prompted some kind of break-out-from-the-scene-of-terror reaction.

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Nooop said:

#1
Boss: We got 4 Abrams and 4 Bradleys just behind this ridge in line abreast, scouts already spotting the other side and have picked out targets. Only a few APCs and infantry ATGMs. Just a demo scenario.

We got thirty two pairs of IR enhanced eyeballs searching, 4 120mm guns, 8 TOWs, 4 HMGs, 4 25mm 200rpm autocannons set to airburst ready to rain hell on anyone foolish enough to show themselves. 

Company, advance to hull down and engage! Rock and roll!

Pixeltruppens: LASER WARNING! Pop smoke! Back up! Whew, that was close.

Boss: Could you at least not rotate before you back up so the formation doesn't get jumbled up? Now I have to put it in a line again.


#2
Boss: Your safe behind this building blocking LOS from three enemy squads across the street. Now go in and take up positions.

Pixeltruppen: But there's no door on this side, we'll have to and walk around to the opposite side to go in the front door. Since there's not a lot space between buildings we'll have to go single file around the perimeter...

Boss: [removed by moderator]

#1 The laser warning behaviour is a point of some contention, but I think the behaviour is at least defensible (I do think it's a bit too crude as-is) - if someone can lase you, they can see you, and it's reasonable to assume they can kill you, since even if you know that pretty much nothing in Black Sea can hurt you, your dudes *don't* know that. What if the enemy has a weapon you haven't seen, or is attacking from a vulnerable aspect?

The fact you know it's a demo scenario in the editor with nothing scary doesnt mean your troops have, or should have, the same information. Train as you fight.

#2 They'll do what you ask. If you ask them to do something stupid, they'll do something stupid.

Aside from the listed, where you've hypothetically told them to dp exactly that, most of the "troops going in the wrong door" comes down to traffic management.

Movement is based on fireteams, so an unsplit squad will sometimes try to jam both elements through a door at the same time to fulfil your order. If there is a second door, they will send one team through that instead when they find the first route blocked.

Split them, and give them different orders, with perhaps a pause to stagger them.

 

Edited by domfluff
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1 hour ago, domfluff said:

both elements through a door at the same time to fulfil your order.

Somebody on the forums said once and I believe it is correct that houses are generic. You enter a house, but we don't know how exactly. In RL you can enter through the widows too. If you shell a house the troops have a defensive factor when they hide when you play you can see a 155mm shell going through the roof. Don't assume that the house is clear!. Houses have cellars especially in the country during WW2 good place to hide. Only explanation I have they survived a 155mm HE shell. In the editor we can't have houses with cellars in F&R Berlin the city had a subway system but not in the scenarios. Concealment, I think you get spotted by the TacAI not by what we would experience in real life or by what our perception is. I do scout in the beginning of every game. Infantry without binoculars can spot and identify enemy armor at 1km and over. Concealment it is less likely that you get spotted but it is possible. Houses are hard cover and concealment and infantry on a scouting mission are unlikely to spot anything until it is too late inside a house. Houses need a recon by fire .50 cal and over are ideal. I base my opinion and I say my opinion on the fact that houses in CM have only one big room. Scouts don't find hidden infantry in buildings or in cover and concealment, they are very good in spotting armor. Armor is the smoking gun and gives as an idea where his defensive positions and outposts are. Their guns functions as a finger look there!

Blunting-the-Spear.png

 

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Quote

"troops going in the wrong door" comes down to traffic management

Maybe if it showed the path thi AI intends to take when you pput waypoints. Would help too when there is a long strip of impassible ground and they will have to go around it (right in front of the enemy, of course).

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 5/6/2021 at 1:13 AM, Nooop said:

Maybe if it showed the path thi AI intends to take when you pput waypoints. Would help too when there is a long strip of impassible ground and they will have to go around it (right in front of the enemy, of course).

There's only two types of ground impassible to infantry, so you'll likely not see it much, and it will be obvious when you do.
The trouble is some types of rubble or flavor objects can be used to block a door and make it impassible, and you won't know until your guys refuse to use the door.
Personally I think if the scenario designer wants to block a door, he can simply not put the door there in the first place.

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