AI - Couple of Questions

[Canuck21]

So, things are going pretty well at the moment. I'm studying the manuals, looking at scenarios that come with the sim/games in the Scenario Editor, and also watching a very good YouTube video by "proambulator" on AI Triggers, so things are starting to become more clear. I've also made/setup a couple more testbeds (so to speak) to test out what I'm learning and that's helping as well. I do have 2 questions for now, if you don't mind:

1. I saw in one or two unit editors for scenarios that come with the game, the designation "[R2...]". I understand [U"n" and A"n"] ("n" being number values for targets and groups respectively), but I've not found the meaning for the "R" designation. Can someone fill me in on that please?

2. Setups in the AI pane can be painted in on the map, but in the pre-made samples I've seen, they aren't painted. I do see them for Order 2 (and onward) if a unit is moving (these are the yellow painted squares I'm referring to). Is this a case where you would only paint in the setup zones if you have multiple plans where a given unit(s) might start from a different location in each plan? I do have a test scenario where I painted in a setup zone for a group but when I started the battle as the other side to test it, those units were still in the original place I placed them when deploying them. I only had one plan for the test group and it was set to Used Frequently. So I'm not sure why they didn't take up the new setup position in this case. Any clarifications on setup zones would be helpful in terms of when you paint them in.

3. (I know, I only said a "couple of questions" - there are 3 kinds of people in this world - those who can count, and those who can't ) In the same vein as 2 above, you can also paint a setup area (or destination) for orders in red (fire), cyan (retreat I believe) and one other one. Does this mean that if instead of painting a square(s) in yellow where a unit would advance to, that instead if painted in red, it will fire into that area instead of moving to it (or retreat to it, etc.)?

Ok, that's it for now. Any/all help would be very much appreciated. Thanks hugely!

Glenn

 

[benpark]

The game within the game. The Editor. The engine. Congratulations fellow traveler, lots of things to uncover and adapt still within.

1. "R" refers to "Reinforcement". Those are assigned to Groups with the number keys, if I recall. You can then give them arrival times from the AI window, if I recall.

2. That likely means people did the Setup on-map, in 3D view. Those positions will be saved as the Setup positions, but for all plans (unless a yellow "painted" Setup is assigned). If you add an AI Plan for Setup for a second set of AI Plans, the areas you painted will instead be the Setup for that assigned AI Group.

A mix is generally what I do- 3 AI Plans, with one using a hand-done setup. Lots of reasons to change that from time-to-time, but that gives a mix of control and controlled randomness. That leads to replayabilty, one hopes.

If you are trying to make a Quick Battle map (they have their own quirks- this doesn't hold for scenarios), you will need to have the AI plan painted within the side-specific Setup Zone (done in Map view).

3. You can do both the yellow AI location, and the Withdraw or Area Fire. For example- set the location a squad is moving to, and then firing from. Area Fire needs some good timing- I generally let the AI fire off a few minutes, then move to the next task so their ammo doesn't burn up.

Edited April 21, 2021 by benpark

[Canuck21]

Hi @benpark, and thank you for this (and the welcome ). Yeah, I'm loving learning this. Still on the steep part of the curve but enjoying it greatly.

1. Great - thanks. 

2. In one case the "people" was me on my test scenario . I found one thing I did wrong in that I had painted the AI setup zones outside the map setup zones, so that was never going to work. However, I've fixed that, but the bodies still aren't moving to the AI setup zones. I just have one plan so far so maybe that's why? Not sure but I'll experiment. You are correct though - I did deploy the troops manually first. I gather from what you are saying I can simply select the units in the Unit Editor, but not physically place them, but letting the AI place them instead? That would be cool. I'll give that a shot, but if you have a minute to confirm that, it would be great. That also helps to know you make 3 plans. My goal also is to get not just good scenarios, but highly replayable ones so that helps me a lot. Right now I'm not doing Quick Battle maps, but I do plan to down the road (I love making maps!). Good to know about that deal.

3. I'm still a tad fuzzy on this one. The yellow AI zone is where you go to (for example), but if you paint another section (let's say 50 m away from the first one), this time in red, are your troops *going* there and firing from there, or staying in the yellow AI zone and firing *to* that red zone?

Again, a huge thank you for this! It helps tremendously.

Glenn

[George MC]

1 minute ago, Canuck21 said:

Hi @benpark, and thank you for this (and the welcome ). Yeah, I'm loving learning this. Still on the steep part of the curve but enjoying it greatly.

2. In one case the "people" was me on my test scenario . I found one thing I did wrong in that I had painted the AI setup zones outside the map setup zones, so that was never going to work. However, I've fixed that, but the bodies still aren't moving to the AI setup zones. I just have one plan so far so maybe that's why? Not sure but I'll experiment. You are correct though - I did deploy the troops manually first. I gather from what you are saying I can simply select the units in the Unit Editor, but not physically place them, but letting the AI place them instead? That would be cool. I'll give that a shot, but if you have a minute to confirm that, it would be great. That also helps to know you make 3 plans. My goal also is to get not just good scenarios, but highly replayable ones so that helps me a lot. Right now I'm not doing Quick Battle maps, but I do plan to down the road (I love making maps!). Good to know about that deal.

3. I'm still a tad fuzzy on this one. The yellow AI zone is where you go to (for example), but if you paint another section (let's say 50 m away from the first one), this time in red, are your troops *going* there and firing from there, or staying in the yellow AI zone and firing *to* that red zone?

Again, a huge thank you for this! It helps tremendously.

Glenn

re 2 have you allocated an AI group to your units e.g. 1st Platoon tanks are AI Group 3 (you do that by using the F1, F2 etc keys whilst in the unit editor) - no units allocated to your AI plan = no unit moving.

The other thing, and not being funny but I've done this! Is check that your Red AI plan has actually been created on the red side and not the Blue side... Ask me how I know this can be done easily....

re 3 the area fire (Red is where the unit will aim and attempt to fire on (area fire) if it has LOF. it won't move that to area. So your troops will travel from one AI movement point (the yellow squares) to another and attempt to area fire at the painted area fire targets if they have LOF OR an enemy appears in which case the now sighted enemy becomes the [priority target.

Hope this helps - you've just got into a whole new game!

Cheery!

[Canuck21]

Thanks @George MC! Really appreciate your time. Yes, I did make sure I had groups (and targets for that matter - the "[U...]" designation) set up and based my plan/orders on those. Good point though.

On your second point about setting a plan for one side while intending to set it for the other side, no, I've **never** done that. Nope, not me. Ummnnn, gee, my nose seems to be growing. Rapidly... ! Being serious, if I had a nickel for every time I've done that, I could buy Battlefront <LMAO>. I'm a master at that!

Ok, on 3. that's perfect! Exactly what I needed.

Alrighty, it's back to work for me. Thank you again George. 

Glenn

[George MC]

My pleasure. If you can't resolve why the units are not moving just attach the file here and I can give it a quick look (tomorrow) to see what's up?

Cheery!

[Canuck21]

Cool, thanks! Got a couple of things to try that should work if I read the replies right, but if they don't, I'll for sure send it along. Much appreciated  .

[Canuck21]

Ok, got it. I didn't realize you had to start the scenario (hitting the timer) before they'd move to their proper spots. This time as well, I picked the units in the Unit Editor but didn't manually deploy them, instead letting the AI do it. Worked perfectly. This is a very slick system  . Another piece of the puzzle falls into place. Onward and upwards . Thanks again to all for the help.

Glenn

Edited April 21, 2021 by Canuck21

[Canuck21]

@George MC - I almost fired off my scenario to you today. I couldn't for the life of me get the pixeltruppen to follow my AI orders. After the time came and went that they were supposed to move, they were just sitting there (probably having tea or something) like bumps on a log. I tried 5 times to get them moving, but nothing worked. Finally, I went back in and closely inspected the AI Orders. Yup, you guessed it - I had set the orders for the wrong side. Again. I'm really getting "good" at that . Sheesh. Anyway, what triggered me to look at that again was your post above about making sure you're programming the right side. You know, the thing I said I've **never** done (I hope you caught my sarcasm in that line when I wrote it) ? Oddly enough, when I reprogrammed it to the right side, it worked perfectly. Go figure  . Anyway, thought you'd enjoy that little tidbit.

Glenn

[George MC]

13 hours ago, Canuck21 said:

@George MC - I almost fired off my scenario to you today. I couldn't for the life of me get the pixeltruppen to follow my AI orders. After the time came and went that they were supposed to move, they were just sitting there (probably having tea or something) like bumps on a log. I tried 5 times to get them moving, but nothing worked. Finally, I went back in and closely inspected the AI Orders. Yup, you guessed it - I had set the orders for the wrong side. Again. I'm really getting "good" at that . Sheesh. Anyway, what triggered me to look at that again was your post above about making sure you're programming the right side. You know, the thing I said I've **never** done (I hope you caught my sarcasm in that line when I wrote it) ? Oddly enough, when I reprogrammed it to the right side, it worked perfectly. Go figure  . Anyway, thought you'd enjoy that little tidbit.

Glenn

He! We've all been there! Good to share though and good to hear you did some trouble shooting and worked it out.

Cheery!