Mud?

[weapon2010]

Is the mud ground tile much more likely to cause bog/immobilization if the ground condition is set to wet as opposed to dry?

[mjkerner]

Yes it does. This is from before CMBN release in 2011. George MC explains it third post down:

 

[Erwin]

The weird thing in CM is that it is unclear if speed affects the chance to bog in any wet or muddy conditions.since we are told that vehicles slow to an appropriate speed automatically.  So, in CM one may as well move FAST all the time so long as not in immediate combat.  Crew/driver experience does affect the chance to bog.

[Freyberg]

2 hours ago, weapon2010 said:

Is the mud ground tile much more likely to cause bog/immobilization if the ground condition is set to wet as opposed to dry?

Significantly more!

[chuckdyke]

40 minutes ago, Erwin said:

So, in CM one may as well move FAST all the time so long as not in immediate combat.

Indeed, unless there is a reason to move at a lesser speed.

[Freyberg]

7 hours ago, chuckdyke said:

8 hours ago, Erwin said:

So, in CM one may as well move FAST all the time so long as not in immediate combat.

Indeed, unless there is a reason to move at a lesser speed.

I dunno - I have no tests to prove otherwise, but this theory doesn't gel with my experience of the game.

Perhaps it's just my imagination...

[chuckdyke]

4 minutes ago, Freyberg said:

Perhaps it's just my imagination...

Subjectively is just what it is in this situation. Find a muddy patch (Ferme Diedenhoven FB) scenario has plenty. Go through on slow with Recon Car or on fast around it. With fast around it there was less chance bogging than by going slowly through it. Is this a test or just experience? 

[Bulletpoint]

9 hours ago, Erwin said:

The weird thing in CM is that it is unclear if speed affects the chance to bog in any wet or muddy conditions.since we are told that vehicles slow to an appropriate speed automatically.  So, in CM one may as well move FAST all the time so long as not in immediate combat.  Crew/driver experience does affect the chance to bog.

 

[Erwin]

Not sure what your point is.  This is useful information for players, especially new players who do not have our years of playing experience.

[BornGinger]

It's too easy to get bogged down and immobilised in a splash of mud in the games. It even happens if the conditions are freezing cold which would mean that a little splash of mud on a road would have been frozen stiff.

[A Canadian Cat]

On 4/9/2021 at 12:04 PM, BornGinger said:

It's too easy to get bogged down and immobilised in a splash of mud in the games. It even happens if the conditions are freezing cold which would mean that a little splash of mud on a road would have been frozen stiff.

Or things just got cold overnight and what you have is a layer of ice over muddy slush...

[BornGinger]

Gyx

Edited April 11, 2021 by BornGinger

[BornGinger]

1 hour ago, IanL said:

Or things just got cold overnight...

IanL has a new profile picture. Has he had a change of conviction or just decided to renew himself because he's getting old?

Edited April 11, 2021 by BornGinger

[MikeyD]

There are weather and terrain extremes that rarely get used in CM scenarios because they're liable to bring the battle to a halt. Blizzard, high wind and deep snow condition for example. Another is heavy rain and muddy conditions. CM is a tactical sim, sometimes the proper tactical thing to do is just not bring your armor forward. Or at least stick to paved roads only.

[chuckdyke]

2 minutes ago, MikeyD said:

Or at least stick to paved roads only.

My example is Ferme Diedenhoven in FB. You have on the left flank a deployment area where you have a halftrack with a spotter and three recon cars. Later an armoured company deploys from that spot too. The only way out is to negotiate about five muddy trails out. If you go slow through the muddy patches, you get bogged. Plot your waypoints on fast around them the best you can is preferable than on slow through it. You may as well plot fast as the vehicles go the correct speed automatically. That's when you play German. 

[A Canadian Cat]

59 minutes ago, BornGinger said:

IanL has a new profile picture. Has he had a change of conviction or just decided to renew himself because he's getting old?

LOL much simpler. I managed to win king of the hill at the few good men tournament and defend my position. The tournament organizer announced it will a hilarious black cat on a cardboard thrown. I do love some tung in cheek humour so I switched up my avatar for kicks.

Notice my little saying that goes with it: defender of the faith. This time someone used it as an insult but it's just so funny to me to be called that. I put it up for all to see forever (well unless something funnier comes along)

[weapon2010]

21 minutes ago, MikeyD said:

Blizzard, high wind and deep snow condition for example. Another is heavy rain and muddy conditions.

agreed, and tactically in real war I would imagine those conditions halted real attacks

[Erwin]

It's also useful to check the offroad capability rating of the vehicle.  A PzV or T-34 can do better than (say) a PzIV.

[FlemFire]

I believe CMx1 paid attention to speeds on muddy terrain? IIRC, it's not going around fast that prevents it, but going slow. If you go too fast in mud you actually grind yourself into the earth. If you're in a regular vehicle it's one thing to fly over mud with some momentum, but a tank is too heavy so you have to go carefully. That was my understanding, anyway.

[chuckdyke]

1 hour ago, Khalerick said:

I believe CMx1 paid attention to speeds on muddy terrain? IIRC, it's not going around fast that prevents it, but going slow. If you go too fast in mud you actually grind yourself into the earth. If you're in a regular vehicle it's one thing to fly over mud with some momentum, but a tank is too heavy so you have to go carefully. That was my understanding, anyway.

Nope it has been discussed and tested and tested some more. If you plot a fast move through mud you get bogged. Not because you go fast it is because you drive through mud. The GM engine adjust your speed according to the terrain. Mud needs to be avoided you will get bogged on slow at the same rate as when you go fast. The move commands are for tactical use. 

[Erwin]

Only the experience level of the driver/crew will affect bogging %.  

[FlemFire]

6 hours ago, chuckdyke said:

Nope it has been discussed and tested and tested some more. If you plot a fast move through mud you get bogged. Not because you go fast it is because you drive through mud. The GM engine adjust your speed according to the terrain. Mud needs to be avoided you will get bogged on slow at the same rate as when you go fast. The move commands are for tactical use. 

To clarify, I was speaking to CMx1 and that it as you say not modeled at all in CMx2.

[Splinty]

On 4/9/2021 at 12:04 PM, BornGinger said:

It's too easy to get bogged down and immobilised in a splash of mud in the games. It even happens if the conditions are freezing cold which would mean that a little splash of mud on a road would have been frozen stiff.

Rough frozen ground in real life will throw tracks faster and more easily than you would think. Remember not all immobilizations in CM are due to mud or soft ground, many are mechanical or vehicular.

[MikeyD]

I once worked with a WWII veteran who went through a LOT of WWII Pacific fighting. At some point he decided he might like to actually survive to war's end. So whenever it was time for his unit to go out on patrol he's tell his officer 'Time to do a little tank maintenance!', he'd hop in their Stuart light tank, drive it to a nearby patch of sand, make a hard left turn and 'Oh no, I've thrown a track! Sorry, I can't go out on patrol today'. Worked like a charm every time.

[BornGinger]

Is the example above what one calls a coward? He lets his buddies go out on patrol but sits down with a coffee himself.

Edited April 14, 2021 by BornGinger