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Any tips for playing as Ukraine? Relative advantages?


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Just played (and lost) my first PBEM match as Ukraine VS Russia. I'm curious if anyone has tips for playing Ukraine: a lot of their gear seems older and obsolete compared to the Russian stuff. My BMP2s seemed to lose the spotting war when put up against BMP2Ms (and then being turned into decorative colanders), aside from ambushes. Is the modernised BTR any good at spotting? Does Ukraine have any particular advantages against Russia, or does a Ukraine player need to resign themselves to doing their best with weaker kit? 

How does the Oplot hold up in terms of spotting?

 

 

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Ukr side is the underdog but fun to play.    Are you playing a defense or meeting engagement battle? 

tips on BM-2 and BTR-4E's spotting, you will need someone to occupy the commander's seat. Split a 2 men scout team from your Infantry squad. Make them aboard the IFV first so that one of the scout team will be the Vehicle's commander. 

 

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Ukraine is definitely the weakest force, but their units are generally cheaper so you can buy more of them. Their newer ATGM's are quite good and the T-12 anti-tank gun is surprisingly effective against most Russian armour, although it is pretty immobile and easier to spot than ATGM's. In a QB, I generally opt for using BTR-70s and buy more tanks and ATGM's, although autocannons can be very useful, but you can always buy Tunguskas. In general, I try to use APC's and IFV's as infantry transport and against enemy infantry, but avoid engaging with enemy armour as much as possible (the Bradley is a bit of an exception here).

I think the Oplot is about on par with the T-72's in game, so it's pretty decent, but I find that the T-90 is definitely better at spotting. I think that the best strategy in a case like that is to try and use infantry to locate enemy tanks as much as possible and then use numbers to your advantage. 

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This is all really helpful, thanks everyone.

On 4/11/2021 at 9:56 AM, zmoney said:

The oplot is a better tank than anything the Russians have as far as the game is concerned. I think the Ukrainian high end ATGM’s are pretty awesome and fairly high tech. 

Heh, I brought some Skifs and was looking forward to trying them out, had a couple set up in a tree-line. Two BMP-2Ms rolled up into line of sight, but for some reason the gunner wouldn't fire! It was a full 2 minutes later that I realised the TacAI had managed to set-up so both crew-men could see the BMPs....but the ATGM was set-up with the muzzle pointed right at a tree directly in front of it. Ah well, c'est la guerre Combat Mission.

9 hours ago, Chudacabra said:

I think that the best strategy in a case like that is to try and use infantry to locate enemy tanks as much as possible and then use numbers to your advantage. 

This might be a stupid question, but I'm curious what people do after they locate enemy vehicles this way.

My feeling with CMBS is that weapon systems are so lethal, and first-spotting is so decisive, that rolling vehicles up to known enemy contacts still means they get spotted first and blasted just because moving vehicles get a big concealment malus. So moving vehicles are still trying to spot their stationary opponents before they get seen first and shot. I guess the answers are artillery, smoke, ATGMs, but does anyone have good tactics for using tanks/IFVs to pop up and engage a known enemy position facing your way?

I lost 2 Oplots because I had eyes on a pair of stationary BMP-2Ms with scouts, then made the risky call to push forward with Oplots with a Hunt command. They got tagged and taken out before they could identify the BMP contacts.

Edited by badgerbadger
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5 hours ago, badgerbadger said:

This might be a stupid question, but I'm curious what people do after they locate enemy vehicles this way.

Due to CM's unique relative spotting feature ,  information sharing will be an important procedure.  The Infantry team knows there is a BMP 500m ahead hiding in the woods , but the tank crews don't know until the information passed to them. Without the latest enemy position update, a tank has to go through all kinds of spotting check .

There are some discussion on information sharing process, and some bug , frustration behind this.

If information sharing doesn't work, or in some circumstance you don't have time to make this work, knowing that a BMP ahead as a player can still be helpful. You can adjust your plan accordingly, for example , you can make the tank stopped at a hull down position.  Or area fire couple HE at the BMP's position then scoot back. Mess up BMP's optics, make your opponent nervous. If lucky, a direct hit HE round can penetrate BMP's armor.    

 

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An out of box thinking , if you have enough time and your opponent don't move his AFV very often. Bring up ATGM team or Arty spotter (using PGM) to take down enemy AFV

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5 hours ago, badgerbadger said:

My feeling with CMBS is that weapon systems are so lethal, and first-spotting is so decisive, that rolling vehicles up to known enemy contacts still means they get spotted first and blasted just because moving vehicles get a big concealment malus. 

That's true . even powerful M1A2 and T90AM will have this penalty, but their penalty is very minimum due to their superior optics like gunner's Thermal sight, CITV    (commander's independent thermal viewer) etc.     Oplots will have a more significant penalty.

 

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5 minutes ago, Chibot Mk IX said:

If information sharing doesn't work, or in some circumstance you don't have time to make this work, knowing that a BMP ahead as a player can still be helpful.

This issue has been noted and if you like to cheat yourself it is entirely up to you. Some people make some rules to make the game more realistic. If you break them, it will be difficult to find an opponent. 

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36 minutes ago, chuckdyke said:

This issue has been noted and if you like to cheat yourself it is entirely up to you. Some people make some rules to make the game more realistic. If you break them, it will be difficult to find an opponent. 

Please be more specific on that.  Many opponent will have HR restrict pre-planned Arty, I haven't meet an opponent that restrict area-fire.

If you are talking about Bil Hardenberger's  Hard cat rule, it is an interesting HR that put more emphasis on C2 and even add some role playing element into the game. I am really enjoying that in my single player game. But I haven't meet any opponent that would like to implement Bil's HR in PBEM game 

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Chibot Mk IX said:

But I haven't meet any opponent that would like to implement Bil's HR in PBEM game 

 

It is very hard in a PBEM game. It requires honesty. Area fire without a contact icon is a no no. when I play the AI or on Hotseat. Command and control is everything if you play Zeus on Mt Olympic and decide which mortal will share your situational awareness the game is pointless. You plan an attack, and you need communication between armor, FO's, scouts, engineers, and infantry. From the SMEAC formula peel the last 2 letters. Administrations Logistics and Communications all the different factions need to communicate with each other. Vertically and Horizontally so when 2 scouts get a contact inside 3 turns every unit in your organization will get the same contact. It is the function of wargaming to come up with a model which works in real life. The guys with the binoculars, maps and radios control the battlefield make sure they communicate with each other.  

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Ukraine is a bit weaker, yes, but not enough to make a difference. Russia and Ukraine have much of the same equipment and organization, although Russia has some newer kit.

Tactics for both sides are the same, basically standard combined arms tactics. Whatever gets spotted first will usually get killed, so plenty of recon, plenty of overwatch, covering fire, etc. 

Edited by Sgt Joch
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22 hours ago, chuckdyke said:

It is very hard in a PBEM game. It requires honesty. Area fire without a contact icon is a no no. when I play the AI or on Hotseat. Command and control is everything if you play Zeus on Mt Olympic and decide which mortal will share your situational awareness the game is pointless. You plan an attack, and you need communication between armor, FO's, scouts, engineers, and infantry. From the SMEAC formula peel the last 2 letters. Administrations Logistics and Communications all the different factions need to communicate with each other. Vertically and Horizontally so when 2 scouts get a contact inside 3 turns every unit in your organization will get the same contact. It is the function of wargaming to come up with a model which works in real life. The guys with the binoculars, maps and radios control the battlefield make sure they communicate with each other.  

I agree with you on this. That is my personal HR when I play single player game. The problem is not too many other people care about C2.  It's very hard to find an opponent to share the same opinion on this topic. 

 

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1 minute ago, Chibot Mk IX said:

The problem is not too many other people care about C2.

I disagree, we play on Iron against the AI it is just a sandbox. I wish Hotseat would be internet friendly. Host computer and a monitor opponent computer. I have the feeling attacking a contact icon is more effective than attacking a cold area we know has a unit or units. To put a system in place which makes your command and control efficient is a rewarding experience. By habit I let the TacAI do most of the fighting, area fire on fresh contact icons. 

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1 minute ago, Lethaface said:

This is called PBEM. Hotseat literally is about playing on 1 computer (with one seat, hence 'hot' seat).

Reading all the stuff about PBEM it doesn't sound very attractive at least for me. To put a computer up in the Cloud would make Hotseat a possibility on the internet. I get my visitor and partner in crime this Friday. I have two computers in my house, but Hotseat can only be played on one PC only. It would be great just to play from two different rooms. Our weekly game is always enjoyable, and we eliminated gamey borgspotting to zilch. You may win a game put you only kid yourself when you're Zeus on Mt Olympus. Here is a thread in regards PBEM games. PBEM turns not generating correctly for large battles. Just look it up. 

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11 minutes ago, chuckdyke said:

Reading all the stuff about PBEM it doesn't sound very attractive at least for me. To put a computer up in the Cloud would make Hotseat a possibility on the internet. I get my visitor and partner in crime this Friday. I have two computers in my house, but Hotseat can only be played on one PC only. It would be great just to play from two different rooms. Our weekly game is always enjoyable, and we eliminated gamey borgspotting to zilch. You may win a game put you only kid yourself when you're Zeus on Mt Olympus. Here is a thread in regards PBEM games. PBEM turns not generating correctly for large battles. Just look it up. 

PBEMs are just like hotseat, only difference is after each turn the game is saved and you send the file to your opponent. Dropbox or any other file transer works fine, which is much more easy to setup than a computer in the cloud. 
It would also work fine with two computers in different rooms, just exchange the files on a network share. Another option would be WEGO TCP/IP, but that doesn't allow more than one replay of a turn. Literally if you are looking to play on two computers instead of one, PBEM is the way to go.
Perhaps just try it out, I think you'll find it great.

Anyway I've been playing PBEMs since before 2010 orso and in general don't have issues (plenty of large games among those). As a matter of fact I'm playing a huge game right now, no issues with turns generating correctly.

All in all after about 50+ PBEM games I played over the years, I don't need to read a thread about people having an issue, to know that it works fine in general.

 

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I agree with Lethaface. Multiplayer PBEM is the only way to go, the AI is limited and nothing compares to playing against a Human opponent.

Ukraine vs Russia in CMBS is also very popular in PBEM since both sides are pretty evenly balanced, although I think the new Cold War game will also be very popular in PBEM.

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2 minutes ago, Sgt Joch said:

Multiplayer PBEM is the only way to go, the AI is limited and nothing compares to playing against a Human opponent.

I agree however me and my opponent find it more convenient to visit each other and play on Hotseat than by sending PBEM files. It starts like this we like large maps agree on the Map and game and let the host do the defending. The attacking player visits and come to an agreement on the rules. I disagree that PBEM is the only way to go Hotseat for us is very enjoyable. 

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