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1228768401_Door2.png.dc6863b7013de4dc3cc0cdb7ee6e0559.png

 

Door on the right is a door whereas door on the left is not. Team runs out of right door and then runs around the house and enters left door house from the front. Rather that should be tried to enter as they all wound up on the casualty list. Must be something about sitting asymmetrically to the grid square.

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In this case it appears that the door is partially underground because the elevation appears to be different between the two doors.  When a designer doesn't put buildings on flat ground the doors frequently don't work because the door is blocked by the ground.  Creating a town in hilly terrain is a lot of work and you really have to massage the ground in order for it to work and have it look okay.  I can't be certain because I'm not looking in the editor and I don't know what map that is, but to my eye that door doesn't look like it's the right size (my eyeball is telling me it's too short so the elevation isn't flat)

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11 minutes ago, ASL Veteran said:

In this case it appears that the door is partially underground because the elevation appears to be different between the two doors.  When a designer doesn't put buildings on flat ground the doors frequently don't work because the door is blocked by the ground.  Creating a town in hilly terrain is a lot of work and you really have to massage the ground in order for it to work and have it look okay.  I can't be certain because I'm not looking in the editor and I don't know what map that is, but to my eye that door doesn't look like it's the right size (my eyeball is telling me it's too short so the elevation isn't flat)

Yes, I think you are correct. Good eye!

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749667632_DreadtoTread.png.9795b236553749aa531ccfdf34e5ec7e.png

Here's another no go in the same scenario but across the street from the previous. 2 teams blasting. One, the wall the other, the house. Both blasts are successful but neither team wants to walk through the opening. Each will run to where the other is but only by circling around to the front and thereby dies in a hot zone. In this one I tried blasting the wall to the house instead of the wall but the result is the same -- a no go.

 

Scenario is Linking Up and Breaking Out. One of my faves. Except for this!

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1 hour ago, KGBoy said:

Scenario is Linking Up and Breaking Out. One of my faves. Except for this!

Is this the same as in the demo?  I liked it a lot, didn't notice these issues but it was so new to me at the time that I wouldn't.  I wouldn't have known about blasting either 😁.

Perhaps I should re-visit...

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7 hours ago, ASL Veteran said:

When a designer doesn't put buildings on flat ground the doors frequently don't work because the door is blocked by the ground. 

It always makes me disappointed when scenario designers don't check the buildings and make sure everything looks ok enough before they decide that their scenario is ready to be used to fight on.

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Linking up and Breaking out is an older scenario.  At that time I seem to recall that buildings would automatically flatten the terrain around it so the building sat flat.  At some point later on buildings no longer pushed the terrain flat automatically so now unless the designer places elevation points under the building the ground will rise up and cover doors and windows.  I may not be remembering right though cause it's been a few years since Commonwealth.  The elevation routine was changed with the first Italy game IIRC because roads wouldn't cut into mountains and other complications that were specific to Italy.  I'm guessing that scenarios from before the first Italy game may suffer these issues with doors and windows more so than in later titles.

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44 minutes ago, ASL Veteran said:

Linking up and Breaking out is an older scenario.  At that time I seem to recall that buildings would automatically flatten the terrain around it so the building sat flat.  At some point later on buildings no longer pushed the terrain flat automatically so now unless the designer places elevation points under the building the ground will rise up and cover doors and windows.  I may not be remembering right though cause it's been a few years since Commonwealth.  The elevation routine was changed with the first Italy game IIRC because roads wouldn't cut into mountains and other complications that were specific to Italy.  I'm guessing that scenarios from before the first Italy game may suffer these issues with doors and windows more so than in later titles.

Very good to know ASL (and not ALS like I want to keep typing).

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46 minutes ago, mbarbaric said:

to add to this.-.. I don't understand why only the doors are used to enter the building. i know i would rather break a window then run around the building getting in the way of a MG.

From a scenario design standpoint there really is no need for window entry.  As I recall there was a lot of discussion about this years ago, but ultimately if you just think of doors as 'entry points' rather than doors then the window discussion becomes academic.  On the modular buildings a designer can put a door on every side of the building as well as putting doors on every floor between adjacent buildings if the designer chooses to do so.  I can't do that on the independent buildings, but for the most part if I want to allow the player easy entry to every modular building I can do that as a designer.  A door on every wall would probably look funny, but it's possible.  When two modular buildings abut each other I tend to add doors between the buildings on every floor - it only takes one shift click and it's done now.  Back when CMBN was originally released the windows remained in place when buildings were touching each other and you would have to painstakingly cycle through all the facades until you got the one with a door and no windows.  Now when two buildings are adjacent to each other the walls that touch another building are blank and it just takes one click to put a door in the wall.  So easy peasy lemon squeezy these days.  You can even shift the location of the door along to different parts of the wall if you have two buildings that don't line up exactly against each other.  Or add a door between buildings and then put a window on a part of the building that isn't covered by an adjacent building.  I don't remember exactly when that was added - maybe it was added for Market Garden?  Anyway, it's basically up to the designer and how much time they want to spend cycling through the building facades.  It can be a bit of a time sink, but it's time you have to spend if you want your map to work the way you want it to.  The only thing you can't do is put two doors in the same wall - which is unfortunate in some instances because there are cases where I would like to be able to put an interior door between adjacent buildings as well as put a door to the outside on an exposed part of the building along the same wall.  In the case of the screen shot, if the elevation was adjusted such that the door was no longer blocked then window entry would be unnecessary since the door would work.

 

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2 hours ago, ASL Veteran said:

From a scenario design standpoint there really is no need for window entry.  As I recall there was a lot of discussion about this years ago, but ultimately if you just think of doors as 'entry points' rather than doors then the window discussion becomes academic.  On the modular buildings a designer can put a door on every side of the building as well as putting doors on every floor between adjacent buildings if the designer chooses to do so.  I can't do that on the independent buildings, but for the most part if I want to allow the player easy entry to every modular building I can do that as a designer.  A door on every wall would probably look funny, but it's possible.  When two modular buildings abut each other I tend to add doors between the buildings on every floor - it only takes one shift click and it's done now.  Back when CMBN was originally released the windows remained in place when buildings were touching each other and you would have to painstakingly cycle through all the facades until you got the one with a door and no windows.  Now when two buildings are adjacent to each other the walls that touch another building are blank and it just takes one click to put a door in the wall.  So easy peasy lemon squeezy these days.  You can even shift the location of the door along to different parts of the wall if you have two buildings that don't line up exactly against each other.  Or add a door between buildings and then put a window on a part of the building that isn't covered by an adjacent building.  I don't remember exactly when that was added - maybe it was added for Market Garden?  Anyway, it's basically up to the designer and how much time they want to spend cycling through the building facades.  It can be a bit of a time sink, but it's time you have to spend if you want your map to work the way you want it to.  The only thing you can't do is put two doors in the same wall - which is unfortunate in some instances because there are cases where I would like to be able to put an interior door between adjacent buildings as well as put a door to the outside on an exposed part of the building along the same wall.  In the case of the screen shot, if the elevation was adjusted such that the door was no longer blocked then window entry would be unnecessary since the door would work.

 

i thought more from the pixeltruppen view. one should be able to enter a room through the window. no idea what real troops do, but I guess there may be the case of entering the room through window, element of surprise and that...

however, now that I know how the doors work from editor point of view, I'll start expecting doors all over the place :D

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Most interesting and fair enough and much appreciated! Still doesn't explain the inability to walk through a properly blasted opening to the other side on the second pic. What is stopping them? Dark matter?

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1 hour ago, KGBoy said:

Most interesting and fair enough and much appreciated! Still doesn't explain the inability to walk through a properly blasted opening to the other side on the second pic. What is stopping them? Dark matter?

I find that happens somewhat rarely, but it happens.  I never checked it out, but IIRC it's related to buildings sunk in the ground, just like doors.  Haven't tested it though.

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2 hours ago, KGBoy said:

Most interesting and fair enough and much appreciated! Still doesn't explain the inability to walk through a properly blasted opening to the other side on the second pic. What is stopping them? Dark matter?

 

35 minutes ago, mjkerner said:

IIRC it's related to buildings sunk in the ground, just like doors.  

What MJ said.  The hole created by a blast (demo, tank, arty etc.) is treated similar to a door and has the same problems with elevations as a door.      

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14 hours ago, KGBoy said:

Most interesting and fair enough and much appreciated! Still doesn't explain the inability to walk through a properly blasted opening to the other side on the second pic. What is stopping them? Dark matter?

wait till you run across a flavor object blocking your access. 😛 

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