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I have to admit, I’m a huge fan of British kit. The 30mm on the Armored vehicle seems a little weak against infantry in builds though. Unfortunately I only get about 2hrs play time a week due to pesky things such as work and sleep. But when I get a chance I’m going to run a test with similar cannons firing at troops in buildings to see if there is much of a difference. I suspect it’s due to the fact that HE rounds are fired but just a guess. Whereas I believe the 20mm fires HEDP and the CV fires their fancy rounds. Plus it’s a bigger round.
 

Wondering if anyone else have experienced this or know why?

Edited by zmoney
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17 minutes ago, zmoney said:

But when I get a chance I’m going to run a test with similar cannons firing at troops in buildings

Nato Handsreich I found the Marder's Cannon excellent against infantry in buildings. But as a part of a combined arms assault, you can see the results of breaching walls of the quick firing cannon, combined with the 40mm HE of the infantry section. Combination of plunging and grazing fire. 

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The problem with the Warriors lies with the rate of fire.

More specifically the Warriors gun  "RARDEN" has manual loading system using 3 round clips. Max full auto salvo is 6 rounds. 

BMP-2 can fire more rounds of HE in a one burst than the Warriors whole ammo load of HE.

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  • 3 weeks later...

The British Army has always had a particular obsession with ammo consumption/supply - which is no doubt linked to some of their greatest defeats in battle being linked to running out of ammunition. 

I too was puzzled about the Warrior until I did a bit of research about its background. 

It was designed and built in the late Cold War and meant to serve with British Armoured Troops in Germany, where it would be facing hordes of Soviet tanks and IFVs/APCs.
In order to avoid that the vehicle blasted away its ammo within minutes, the slow-firing and 3-6-round Rarden was purposely chosen to ensure that the Warrior would remain combat effective for longer. Also, the lack of a stabilizer for the cannon meant that the crews were encouraged to remain in the pre-planned and prepared defensive positions the British Army would assume if war broke out. The ammo loadout of the Warrior is a clear indication of this role. Also, to the Rarden's credit, it did have the major benefit of not requiring an external power source and can therefore remain in action even if the vehicle's engine is disabled or turned off.

Curiously the export version of the Warrior (called the Desert Warrior) which was acquired by Kuwait is equipped with the 25mm Bushmaster, rather than the Rarden. 

About the use of the Warrior in-game, I personally tend to mainly use its machinegun with a cannon for emergencies and/or armoured targets. This does require a lot of micro-management, which can be a bit tedious (setting target arcs is quick but it can lead to some frustrating situations). 

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1 minute ago, AtheistDane said:

In order to avoid that the vehicle blasted away its ammo within minutes, the slow-firing and 3-6-round Rarden was purposely chosen to ensure that the Warrior would remain combat effective for longer.

Sounds like a rationalizations for budget cuts depriving an important weapon of ammo.  Can you imagine the US or Russians using the same argument?

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2 hours ago, Erwin said:

Sounds like a rationalizations for budget cuts depriving an important weapon of ammo.  Can you imagine the US or Russians using the same argument?

Budgeting of ammo perhaps. The British forces in Germany would have been seriously outnumbered, and supply would not be easy, so economy of ammo seems like a good idea. The Warrior does have a generous amount of AP ammo, due to its role as a vehicle-killer. 
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The US and Russians were in a different position than the British. The US had a huge supply system to back up its forces, and the Russians; well, they didn't expect their vehicles to survive long enough for resupply to become an issue (and their advances were incremental with units being substituted/rotated as each objective was reached).

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3 hours ago, AtheistDane said:

The British forces in Germany would have been seriously outnumbered, and supply would not be easy, so economy of ammo seems like a good idea.

Hmm...  Ok, but that was 35+ years ago.  CMSF2 is in Syria 5-10 years ago.   The Brit Warriors (as modeled in CMSF) seem as useful and effective as Italian armor was in WW2.  In a game I find it's necessary to have an entire platoon or more of Warriors all firing at the same target (with HE) to get a useful result in a reasonable amount of time.  With one or two Warriors, you just sit there for many turns of firing b4 anything happens to the target.

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The Brits thought they had the optics to hit the target reliably and the gun was made for high accuracy shooting, as opposed to autocannons that relied on a dispersion pattern to increase the chance of a hit from a burst. It was very much a small tank gun.

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  • 2 weeks later...

My CM2 experience with Warriors is that it takes a platoon of Warriors firing for a couple of minutes to equal less than a minute of a single Bradley or BMP firing. 

And as for the BTR 4E, it probably fires more 30mm in 15 seconds than a platoon of Warriors does in over a minute.  In fact the problem in CM2 with the 4E is that one really only needs 5 seconds of fire as one can exhaust its ammo in a little over a minute of firing(!)  Be nice to have a 5 second option rather than the 15 sec minimum.  A workaround is to fire the BTR 4E with a 5 second pause before moving to another waypoint to stop it firing and wasting its precious ammo.

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