Wodin Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 (edited) Well modernish isn't normally my thing, however, as Bil is involved then for me it's a must buy. Anything he has a hand in is a no brainer for me. Exciting. Edited February 18, 2021 by Wodin 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 13 minutes ago, Wodin said: Well modernish isn't normally my thing, however, as Bil is involved then for me it's a must buy. Anything he has a hand in is a no brainer for me. Exciting. Now you're making me all weepy. Bastard. Bil 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wodin Posted February 18, 2021 Author Share Posted February 18, 2021 15 minutes ago, Bil Hardenberger said: Now you're making me all weepy. Bastard. Bil Love you too:) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landser Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 I have to agree, partly because of the Bil thing of course This is the first Combat Mission title I have been excited about since Red Thunder, and no need to say how long ago that was. It appeals to me because it features such well-matched adversaries in a conflict that never flared up. And it focuses on forces that are asymmetric in a number of ways. Nothing like Shock Force of course, but asymmetrical combat is highly appealing for me. Different doctrines clashing. And because the cold war did not go hot, this game will be free of the constraints of history. It's not tethered to historical battles and outcomes, and instead is all what-if. I've often said that as a student of this history I prefer what-if generators. I know what happened in real life, I'd prefer in some ways to war-game out other situations and scenarios. The historical Combat Mission titles have avoided this to a large degree, and understandably so. But Cold War has such massive latitude for campaign and scenario design as a result. This is exciting and I cannot wait to see how it shakes out. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Squarehead Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 (edited) It has gone kind of quiet in ALL the oher forums since this one popped into existence. IMHO Bil & Co. have captured the zeitgeist of the moment....."We don't want a new cold war, we haven't finished playing with the one we already had!". Edited February 18, 2021 by Sgt.Squarehead 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Fusselpulli Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 I think this is an important game, because it is not just some hypothetical war, it is THE hypothetical war. Most of the military equipment used nowadays goes back to this hypothetical warm and this counts for both sides of a conflict. Only slowly we get a shift towards modern asymetrical warfare against unconventional forces. Most existing vehicles, planes, guns, atgms, equipment were designed to meet there, at this moment when the cold war would have gotten hot. This stuff was not created to be used in Afghanistan or Syria, but to be used in central Europe. In the end, it was used in other wars and conflicts, because it was available, because everyone was preparing for this one war that never happened. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 1980 falls 35 years after 1945 and 41 years before 2021. So its closer to WWII than it is to 'modern'. And in concept its very much a continuation of the regional dynamics that drove European hostilities in WWII. Cold War is basically 'WWII endgame'. The Cold War generals were (generally speaking) former WWII footsoldiers. We've seen this pattern more recently as Pentagon policy into the early 2000s was formed largely by generals with Vietnam experience, and Pentagon policy into 2020 was formed by Gulf War veterans. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 49 minutes ago, Sgt.Squarehead said: "We don't want a new cold war, we haven't finished playing with the one we already had!". Is that a personal quote or from someone specifically? I would like to steal.. err.. borrow it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Fusselpulli Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 14 minutes ago, MikeyD said: 1980 falls 35 years after 1945 and 41 years before 2021. So its closer to WWII than it is to 'modern'. When it comes to time, yes. But technology doesn´t develop itself, but change and development is driven by the necessaty to overcome a problem. The problem was, how to stay on top if the cold war gets hot, and a lot of energy went into it. Without that problem, the progress in military development slowed down, until after the the 9th of September 2001, was a different problem to resolve. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethaface Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 19 minutes ago, MikeyD said: 1980 falls 35 years after 1945 and 41 years before 2021. So its closer to WWII than it is to 'modern'. And in concept its very much a continuation of the regional dynamics that drove European hostilities in WWII. Cold War is basically 'WWII endgame'. The Cold War generals were (generally speaking) former WWII footsoldiers. We've seen this pattern more recently as Pentagon policy into the early 2000s was formed largely by generals with Vietnam experience, and Pentagon policy into 2020 was formed by Gulf War veterans. Lol that felt strange being born in 1982, never thought about it that way. But indeed the end WW2 was closer to my birth compared to now, although not by much. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Squarehead Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 59 minutes ago, Bil Hardenberger said: Is that a personal quote or from someone specifically? I would like to steal.. err.. borrow it. Made it up on the spot TBH.....Feel free. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 Just now, Sgt.Squarehead said: Made it up on the spot TBH.....Feel free. Thank you.. I'll give you and your Squarehead all the credit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Squarehead Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 No worries, TBH while it was a typically glib statement, I suspect there is some real truth in it.....I grew up during the original cold war and TBH my fondest memory is of it ending: The sheer joy of those days & weeks! TBH we squandered a golden opportunity, by & large as the result of pure greed on the part of those who should have known better. But all that's a very long way from the Fulda Gap. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt Joch Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 I am old enough to remember when Nixon was President and the Vietnam war was still going on... ...but I digress. What I remember most vividly about the Cold War was the period in 1981-83 when tensions between the U.S. and U.S.S.R. were very high and a lot of people actually thought a nuclear war could break out. Not the good old days by any means. Back to the game, one thing which a lot of CM players will like is that the Tank vs Tank combat is very balanced. This is not WW2 where U.S. tanks are going up against much better German tanks or CMSF/CMBS where U.S. Abrams dominate the battlefield. M60/M1 vs T-62/64/80 is pretty well balanced. Each side has strengths and weaknesses and one side does not dominate the other which puts a premium on...wait for it...tactics! another plus for the red side...no Javelins! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bufo Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 44 minutes ago, Sgt Joch said: another plus for the red side...no Javelins! I was waiting for this, in cmbs it drove me crazy... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Squarehead Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Bufo said: I was waiting for this, in cmbs it drove me crazy... But damn wasn't it satisfying when you killed one, preferably with a precision mortar round, just to make a point. 48 minutes ago, Sgt Joch said: I am old enough to remember when Nixon was President and the Vietnam war was still going on... Me too.....Just about. But I'm odd like that, I can remember watching the first moon landing.....I was six months old. Edited February 18, 2021 by Sgt.Squarehead 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bufo Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 2 minutes ago, Sgt.Squarehead said: But damn wasn't it satisfying when you killed one, preferably with a precision mortar round, just to make a point. I wanted to drive them over with a tank and make them flat, but the game engine didn't allow it 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Squarehead Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 Well you could always park a tank on them after you have killed them with a mortar, if it makes you feel better! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultradave Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 Born in '56, commissioned an FA 2LT in 1979. THIS is exactly what I trained for. Field Artillery primary specialty, Nuclear Weapons secondary specialty (designated very early since my degree was Nuclear Engineering). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Squarehead Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 (edited) Nuclear artillery eh? I've got a bit of thing for the oldest of the old in that field: Edited February 18, 2021 by Sgt.Squarehead 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultradave Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 Yeah, not like that monster. 155mm and 8 in howitzer shells = you don't wanna be that close. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Squarehead Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 (edited) What was the range vs. blast radius (roughly)? I'd imagine shoot & scoot would be kind of high up the training drill (Or maybe shoot & dig a hole?). PS - Annie wasn't all that big, 280mm, it's basically a sexed up German railway gun.....Kondensator was enormous, 406mm, but I suspect that was more down to issues with miniaturising the nukes than any real desire for a whopping gun. PPS - That said, the Soviets clearly weren't averse to whopping guns as they also made the 420mm Oka, which didn't fire nukes: Not that you'd notice much difference if the shell actually hit you! Edited February 18, 2021 by Sgt.Squarehead 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 Oh, I believe they did add a monster cannon to the artillery list just for fun. I can't remember what it was... Ah, the 240mm SP mortar 2S4 Tulpan (Tulip). I haven't tried it out yet. The mortar was nuclear and chemical capable. 9,700m range according to a 1982 Defense Intelligence agency book at my elbow. An atrociously slow ROF but it should pack a big wallop. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomm Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 This all means nothing unless shockwaves make their comeback! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 28 minutes ago, Thomm said: This all means nothing unless shockwaves make their comeback! I remember those from the first preview pics of CMSF1 back around 2007. IIRC got removed cos used too much processing power. Wonder if nowadays our sytems can handle that. Would be good to have that effect. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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