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A Word on Follow-on Modules


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2 minutes ago, Aragorn2002 said:

You're right. And don't forget the term Reichswehr for the interwar German army of the Weimar Republic. 

Here we go I left the Netherlands in the 60's and noticed the language had changed. Peron 3 had become Spoor 3 and more minor changes like that. I did German here as a mature age student, to get points for matriculation. You couldn't select your native language, so I selected German. I was not the only one ex Europeans did much better than English speaking students. That is already 35 years ago. 

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4 minutes ago, chuckdyke said:

Here we go I left the Netherlands in the 60's and noticed the language had changed. Peron 3 had become Spoor 3 and more minor changes like that. I did German here as a mature age student, to get points for matriculation. You couldn't select your native language, so I selected German. I was not the only one ex Europeans did much better than English speaking students. That is already 35 years ago. 

Beautiful language, German. These are hard times for non-English languages like Dutch or German. The elder generations were so much better in expressing themselves in their own language. I like the way the Flemish speak Dutch. They simply refuse to use modern English terms and translate absolutely everything in Dutch. 

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2 minutes ago, Aragorn2002 said:

Beautiful language, German. These are hard times for non-English languages like Dutch or German. The elder generations were so much better in expressing themselves in their own language. I like the way the Flemish speak Dutch. They simply refuse to use modern English terms and translate absolutely everything in Dutch. 

I agree we will be pulled up by @Bil Hardenberger for going off topic. I think his Cold War scenario makes a nice game but not exactly based on historical fact. Communist Parties were seen as legitimate political movements in Western Europe. In the 60's US politics were criticized and the conscription was loathed at least in Amsterdam. Sentiments were much the same in Eastern Europe I learned here. They didn't like the USSR. My scenario would be an Urban Vietnam in Europe and supported by special forces. 

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2 minutes ago, chuckdyke said:

I agree we will be pulled up by @Bil Hardenberger for going off topic. I think his Cold War scenario makes a nice game but not exactly based on historical fact. Communist Parties were seen as legitimate political movements in Western Europe. In the 60's US politics were criticized and the conscription was loathed at least in Amsterdam. Sentiments were much the same in Eastern Europe I learned here. They didn't like the USSR. My scenario would be an Urban Vietnam in Europe and supported by special forces. 

But that's the good thing about Cold War. With the right modules one can make the most fascinating scenarios. 

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6 minutes ago, Aragorn2002 said:

But that's the good thing about Cold War. With the right modules one can make the most fascinating scenarios. 

Yes, the 1940 scenario. Nobody could have predicted that by Christmas 1941 Hitler would be at war with the USA with the USSR as allies. It left the West European governments with egg on their faces. History proved them wrong. The thinking behind my reasoning. The scenario of permit the Finlandization of Western Europe otherwise millions would perish in a nuclear holocaust. This will trigger resistance by a highly skilled and motivated resistance movement. 

Edited by chuckdyke
adding more information.
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8 minutes ago, chuckdyke said:

...Communist Parties were seen as legitimate political movements in Western Europe. In the 60's US politics were criticized and the conscription was loathed at least in Amsterdam. Sentiments were much the same in Eastern Europe I learned here. They didn't like the USSR. My scenario would be an Urban Vietnam in Europe and supported by special forces. 

There were some very militant communists in Germany and Europe in the 1970s - a module including European Communist insurgents would be seriously quite interesting.

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4 minutes ago, Freyberg said:

There were some very militant communists in Germany and Europe in the 1970s - a module including European Communist insurgents would be seriously quite interesting.

Yes, they could seriously disrupt transport, ports, and airports. Don't forget Market Garden Telcom was made available for the allies (They declined) The railway workers went on strike and deprived supplies to the Germans. The same Unions were there at the Cold War. Their politics? On the Right Social Democrats on the left Pacificist Socialist and Communist. To keep them quiet was politics of the welfare state. Translated in excellent wages and conditions. It is all scenarios why the USSR could have occupied Western Europe. 

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9 hours ago, Sequoia said:

What was/is the Army alone called?

Just Heer. The Austrian Military is called Bundesheer, and Bundeswehr in Germany. Maybe missleading for foreign people.
Here a CH-53 by the Heer, in which you can see it:
Sikorsky_CH-53_ILA-2006_2.jpg

8 hours ago, chuckdyke said:

Wehr etymology is related to the English word war.

That might be true, but "Wehr" does have more the mening of defense.
A "Wehr" can also be a technical building reducing the flow of water in a river.
"Brustwehr" is a parapet.
"Wehrhaft" means somebody is ready for defense.
"Sich wehren" means "to fight back"

the etymology might be related to war, but it be more like the english word of defense, which is also connected to fence or fencing, which in itself might be connected again to the German word "fechten" (fencing) or "Gefecht" (Battle)

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3 hours ago, Dr.Fusselpulli said:

Just Heer. The Austrian Military is called Bundesheer, and Bundeswehr in Germany. Maybe missleading for foreign people.
Here a CH-53 by the Heer, in which you can see it:
That might be true, but "Wehr" does have more the mening of defense.
A "Wehr" can also be a technical building reducing the flow of water in a river.
"Brustwehr" is a parapet.
"Wehrhaft" means somebody is ready for defense.
"Sich wehren" means "to fight back"

the etymology might be related to war, but it be more like the english word of defense, which is also connected to fence or fencing, which in itself might be connected again to the German word "fechten" (fencing) or "Gefecht" (Battle)

 

2 hours ago, chuckdyke said:

@Dr.Fusselpulli thanks for your input. Yes, the meaning of words are shifting. Fechten is vechten in Dutch and to fight in English. Here the meaning is still much the same. Once again thank you and happy gaming. 

Hey thanks for that.. I quite enjoy word origins, and in fact the English word "Fight".. would have been pronounced fekt (much like the German word) in Old English... subsequent vowel shifts and dialect changes over time changed the pronunciation but kept the original spelling... that's why there are so many oddly spelled words in English (night, knight, caught , etc.).  Fun stuff.

Cheers, Bil

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I for one would be very interested in a CM: Afghanistan or CM: Chechen War module more or less along the lines of SF2, but with Russia & Allies as the protagonists.

But I (unfortunately) have a feeling that just wouldn't be a commercial success for the developers.

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I'm not saying you can't put down any wishes you like, but Battlefront's emphasis, since the new generation started with Shock Force I, on what gets put in a family is one of depth, not breadth    I can't see any modules outside the '79 to 82' time frame, and the only possibility I could see of a module set outside of Central Europe is maybe, maybe, northern Norway so the USMC could be included. Just my 2 cents.

That aside I've heard the CM:Afghanistan game offers a lot of great game play just the way it is now. I doubt they'll ever update it. We were fortunate Shock Force got updated.

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@Bil Hardenberger Knight is related to the Dutch word Knecht. In modern Dutch it means servant but in the old days a servant to a King or a Bishop too. Ritter (German) and Ridder (Dutch) are related to Rider in English, but it means Knight in both languages. The meaning of words are shifting too over the centuries. 

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10 hours ago, Sequoia said:

That aside I've heard the CM:Afghanistan game offers a lot of great game play just the way it is now.

However, a CMA-like module based on CMCW would be an improvement.  Especially if CMA scenarios and campaigns could still work. 

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47 minutes ago, Sequoia said:

Canadian M113 variant Lynx cavalry and recon vehicle. Also used by the Netherlands. I have no idea what's up with the Pirate flag. This is from the Bovington Tank museum.

 

Lynx-Bovington.jpg

No prisoners?

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On 3/8/2021 at 4:48 AM, Aragorn2002 said:

No prisoners?

The 'Pirate Flag' is called the Jolly Roger and was raised when a Pirate Ship was about to attack. These guys probably felt inspired by that. 

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1 hour ago, Sublime said:

france wasnt a military member in the 70s or 80s

Nevertheless, France had troops in its sector in Berlin and garrisons in its former occupation zone of West Germany throughout the period.  Its military liaison mission to the Group of Soviet Forces Germany (MMFL) was active and coordinated its activities with those of BRIXMIS and the USMLM.  They are worthy of inclusion. 

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