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Lostarmour take on the Second Artsakh-Karabagh War


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I suppose there is no reason why a larger powder charge wouldn't increase the speed of the round, and that seems to be what is shown.  The cannon/AGL could also have had modifications made, they could still be economic if the chages aren't radical to the re-purposed guns, but if not many were made and are in storage, then what would be the point?  A new/modified design would be more appropriate, surely.

AGLs I think normally make use of rifling, however only a small amount is used by APFSDS, since too much will induce drag.  They can still be used in barrels with a normal (?) amount of rifling if the shell makes use of a "spin obturation ring" which I don't see.

They could be mock-ups to show potential uses which are in fact impractical, or could even be fakes, to mislead the enemy or for other purposes as mentioned earlier.  I have read elsewhere that Kurganets-25 may have been cancelled.

A couple more pictures: https://forum.cartridgecollectors.org/t/russian-57-x-93mmrb-ags-57-described-by-some-as-a-hybrid-between-grenade-launcher-and-cannon/39639

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On 2/21/2021 at 10:52 AM, fireship4 said:

I suppose there is no reason why a larger powder charge wouldn't increase the speed of the round, and that seems to be what is shown

There's a limit to that.

  1. Powder burning is not instantaneous so whatever is not burned up to the point when the projectile leaves the barrel does not add to the muzzle velocity.
  2. If you have a lot of very hot gases left by the moment the projective leaves the barrel then you'll have a very bright flash that will both show off you position to the enemy and will blind your own gunner. To avoid this you need time for the gas to cool itself by increasing its volume.
On 2/21/2021 at 10:52 AM, fireship4 said:

"spin obturation ring" which I don't see

You have them on the picture :) You'd have driving bands for artillery rounds in this or that form practically everywhere. You don't want to introduce additional drag and barrel wear by allowing the full length of your projective to touch the rifling. Moreover the requirements for the driving band material is normally totally inconsistent with the requirements for the shell casing and very often - with sabot's.

On 2/21/2021 at 10:52 AM, fireship4 said:

I have read elsewhere that Kurganets-25 may have been cancelled.

Nah, it had its own share of troubles but it's manageable. Worse than Boomerang yet incredible better than Armata that is a total disaster.

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1 hour ago, IMHO said:

There's a limit to that.

Of course, but as compared to the fragmentation (?) shell the powder charge is larger it seems.  In the photo, the segmented AP round is approx 3/4 filled with propellant, whereas the shell in the diagram seems 3/4 explosive for effect on target.

1 hour ago, IMHO said:

You have them on the picture :) You'd have driving bands for artillery rounds in this or that form practically everywhere.

From what I understand, driving bands are different: they induce spin in a rifled barrel, whereas a spin obturation ring would prevent spin being transfered to the projectile.  Edit: driving bands can be made freely rotating it seems, presumably all spin obturation rings are a type of driving band in this case.

Anyway I don't want to encourage you, otherwise your tour of Moscow for "Sgt. Squarehead: Cultural Learnings of Russia for Make Benefit Glorious Nation of UK" might begin and end at Lubyanskaya ploshchad' :P

Edited by fireship4
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7 hours ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

When are they going to stop mucking about and put a 152mm on Armata?  :rolleyes:

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More or less never. Bridge weight limits, inability to produce tank engine to reach decent hp/t ratio etc. Armata is still smoke and mirrors. And there's a good chance it will ever be...

Edited by IMHO
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