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18 minutes ago, Soldat-Hans said:

I ordered with Pay pal. I already made a ticket for this!

I was just typing this when you replied 😁.

If you mean F&R, it hasn't been released yet (it will be very soon).  So you are in the same boat as all the other F&R pre-orders, mine included.

Edited by Vacilllator
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4 minutes ago, Vacilllator said:

I was just typing this when you replied 😁.

If you mean F&R, it hasn't been released yet (it will be very soon).  So you are in the same boat as all the other F&R pre-orders, mine included.

Ahh, okay. I really thought it was released! Because, when you go on Order it does not say preorder. Okay, then everything is ok, Thx for the answer.

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1 hour ago, Aragorn2002 said:

But do we really know what that means in Steve's world, Vacilllator? 😀

Fair point, but we can be hopeful. 

I imagine ideally F&R would have been shunted out before Cold War was announced, but I assume there are still a couple of hopefully* minor issues yet to be resolved and Cold War couldn't wait or was about to blow cover anyway. 

* That's my second use of 'hopeful' in the same post 😁.

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31 minutes ago, Vacilllator said:

Fair point, but we can be hopeful. 

I imagine ideally F&R would have been shunted out before Cold War was announced, but I assume there are still a couple of hopefully* minor issues yet to be resolved and Cold War couldn't wait or was about to blow cover anyway. 

* That's my second use of 'hopeful' in the same post 😁.

Well, I still keep in mind that it's only a relatively small group that's interested in the Eastern front, so that won't make big money for BF. That's very likely also the reason why few resources and little priority were given to Fire and Rubble, which perhaps has been a sideshow, used as a smokescreen. 

A completly new game, developed in utter secrecy and almost at the same time upon us as a module we've been waiting years and years for and developed by a couple of guys, while the module that has been worked on by most of the team took more than 5 years? 🤔

I'm hoping for more such surprises appearing out of the smokescreen in the coming years, yet it's hard to believe. But hey, who cares, as long as we get the games we want! 😉

Edited by Aragorn2002
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18 hours ago, Aragorn2002 said:

Well, I still keep in mind that it's only a relatively small group that's interested in the Eastern front, so that won't make big money for BF. That's very likely also the reason why few resources and little priority were given to Fire and Rubble, which perhaps has been a sideshow, used as a smokescreen. 

A completly new game, developed in utter secrecy and almost at the same time upon us as a module we've been waiting years and years for and developed by a couple of guys, while the module that has been worked on by most of the team took more than 5 years? 🤔

I'm hoping for more such surprises appearing out of the smokescreen in the coming years, yet it's hard to believe. But hey, who cares, as long as we get the games we want! 😉

for me Fire and Rubble is my biggest surprise! I mostly interested in the eastern Front! Because there was the real World war 2 going on! The Americans? Yeah Normandy and battle of the bulge/Ardennes were the only real slaughters they were confronted with! So,... I am not so interested in Western Front! The only one thats would be interesting would be Pacific theatre!

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3 hours ago, Soldat-Hans said:

for me Fire and Rubble is my biggest surprise! I mostly interested in the eastern Front! Because there was the real World war 2 going on! The Americans? Yeah Normandy and battle of the bulge/Ardennes were the only real slaughters they were confronted with! So,... I am not so interested in Western Front! The only one thats would be interesting would be Pacific theatre!

I'm also an Ostfronter, but the fighting at the Western front is also fascinating. Personally I think the British played a larger role there, at least in the period between D-Day and the beginning of 1945, than the Americans, but Hollywood made us forget that. Not downplaying the American war effort, just saying.

From German perspective WW2 was a poor man's war. A military blanket that was always too short and full of holes. That's what modern historians forget when they want to prove their 'new insights' about an 'overrated' German army. If you want to judge the Wehrmacht, you musn't consider them to be a perfect war machine that broke down, but an improvised and badly prepared organisation that never stood a chance against such powerful enemies.

NATO studied the German defensive actions of 1944/45 at the western and eastern front very intensly, because they knew that a third world war would be very similair in many respects. Always outnumbered, always at a disadvantage, with never enough reserves and never an opportunity for initiative. In that respect CMRT/CMFR on the one and CMCW on the other hand are not so different.

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Ahh, that explains why I didn't see any F&R content when opening RT...I also pre-paid via PayPal, and got the Activation Code (activating it), but no content 😞

Edited by JoMac
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5 minutes ago, JoMac said:

Ahh, that explains why I didn't see any F&R content when opening RT...I also pre-paid via PayPal, and got an the Activation Code (activating it), but no content 😞

Joe, if you have activated F&R you may (or may not) want to cast your eyes over the thread below (just the bits about activation, not the missing textures). 

Several of us noticed that we could activate F&R and did so, with little result except for some extended QB dates.  Steve's advice was to undo the activation using a tool which can be had from @BFCElvis by registering a ticket at the Helpdesk (or maybe otherwise, which is why I've copied him in).

 

 

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1 hour ago, Aragorn2002 said:

From German perspective WW2 was a poor man's war. A military blanket that was always too short and full of holes. That's what modern historians forget when they want to prove their 'new insights' about an 'overrated' German army. If you want to judge the Wehrmacht, you musn't consider them to be a perfect war machine that broke down, but an improvised and badly prepared organisation that never stood a chance against such powerful enemies.

From a strategic/economic perspective that may be correct.  On the small unit unit level, the tactics and weapon systems (at least until mid-WW2) were novel and superior, and that seems to be the philosophy behind the CM2 sims.

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11 minutes ago, Erwin said:

From a strategic/economic perspective that may be correct.  On the small unit unit level, the tactics and weapon systems (at least until mid-WW2) were novel and superior, and that seems to be the philosophy behind the CM2 sims.

Tactics yes, weapon systems less so, I would say. The German army of 1914 was much better prepared for war.

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20 hours ago, Aragorn2002 said:

I'm also an Ostfronter, but the fighting at the Western front is also fascinating. Personally I think the British played a larger role there, at least in the period between D-Day and the beginning of 1945, than the Americans, but Hollywood made us forget that. Not downplaying the American war effort, just saying.

From German perspective WW2 was a poor man's war. A military blanket that was always too short and full of holes. That's what modern historians forget when they want to prove their 'new insights' about an 'overrated' German army. If you want to judge the Wehrmacht, you musn't consider them to be a perfect war machine that broke down, but an improvised and badly prepared organisation that never stood a chance against such powerful enemies.

NATO studied the German defensive actions of 1944/45 at the western and eastern front very intensly, because they knew that a third world war would be very similair in many respects. Always outnumbered, always at a disadvantage, with never enough reserves and never an opportunity for initiative. In that respect CMRT/CMFR on the one and CMCW on the other hand are not so different.

Can't argue with that! That is true.

Youre right,  the new Cold war Module might be not so different. but if it has sucess, what i hope it does, they should hurry, to add Bundeswehr and Nationale Volks Armee fast, because lets be real! The first clash would have been these two and then Soviet and US Army would Join! Aaaaand may be even not, because the US had an evacuation plan, when they believed, they would lose the battle in Europe! No joke! So,... I really have to question if EVEN IF the war would have been gone hot, if this szenario would even have become reality! I don't think so, because Us might have been retreated.

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1 hour ago, Soldat-Hans said:

Can't argue with that! That is true.

Youre right,  the new Cold war Module might be not so different. but if it has sucess, what i hope it does, they should hurry, to add Bundeswehr and Nationale Volks Armee fast, because lets be real! The first clash would have been these two and then Soviet and US Army would Join! Aaaaand may be even not, because the US had an evacuation plan, when they believed, they would lose the battle in Europe! No joke! So,... I really have to question if EVEN IF the war would have been gone hot, if this szenario would even have become reality! I don't think so, because Us might have been retreated.

I think every army has a contingency plan for any situation, the Americans wouldn't have been an exception. It would have been crazy not to take evactuation of the European mainland into consideration if things went wrong. But the US army wouldn't have retreated without throwing everything in the fight they could muster.

I very much doubt whether NATO could have won a strictly conventional war, because it lacked both depth and reserves. So retreat or go nuclear, a devilish dilemma. I must admit I'm not an expert on this subject though.

Edited by Aragorn2002
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1 hour ago, Aragorn2002 said:

I think every army has a contingency plan for any situation, the Americans wouldn't have been an exception. It would have been crazy not to take evactuation of the European mainland into consideration if things went wrong. But the US army wouldn't have retreated without throwing everything in the fight they could muster.

I very much doubt whether NATO could have won a strictly conventional war, because it lacked both depth and reserves. So retreat or go nuclear, a devilish dilemma. I must admit I'm not an expert on this subject though.

NATO made the right decision according to its creed. No Action Talk Only. 

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1 hour ago, Aragorn2002 said:

I see. Why is that exactly? Why is NATO failing in their opinion?

 

Politically correct societies can't do anything without organizing a talkfest is the perception. I am afraid there is a ring of truth. In Indonesia I am called a Bule which is derogatory if you single out a person based on race in Europe. Over there it is completely acceptable. Nice people don't understand me wrong. The NATO joke comes from my Indonesian language teacher at the time. 

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1 hour ago, chuckdyke said:

Politically correct societies can't do anything without organizing a talkfest is the perception. I am afraid there is a ring of truth. In Indonesia I am called a Bule which is derogatory if you single out a person based on race in Europe. Over there it is completely acceptable. Nice people don't understand me wrong. The NATO joke comes from my Indonesian language teacher at the time. 

There is most certainly a ring of truth in that. 

Yes, nice people, but somewhat less complicated than us westerners. Almost childish sometimes. I take it you lived on Java for a time? My first wife came from Bandung. I used to speak bahasa, but that's a long time ago. Great part of the world though.

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1 minute ago, Aragorn2002 said:

There is most certainly a ring of truth in that. 

Yes, nice people, but somewhat less complicated than us westerners. Almost childish sometimes. I take it you lived on Java for a time? My first wife came from Bandung. I used to speak bahasa, but that's a long time ago. Great part of the world though.

Yes, I was in Bandung too. Jalan Braga and was doing a cultural awareness course. It has a more pleasant climate. 

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10 minutes ago, chuckdyke said:

Yes, I was in Bandung too. Jalan Braga and was doing a cultural awareness course. It has a more pleasant climate. 

Yes, especially at night it cools off more than for example Jakarta, because it's higher up. And the Sundanese ladies are even prettier. 😉

I know Bandung well, pleasant city with some great restaurants. Still have friends there, but haven't been there for years. I love Indonesia and South East Asia. 

Edited by Aragorn2002
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