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U.S. Thread - CM Cold War - BETA AAR - Battle of Dolbach Heights 1980


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19 minutes ago, Bil Hardenberger said:

Thanks Miquel... I will have to fix that this afternoon after work.  I think I pushed the limits on that one too far.  ;) 

No worries @Bil Hardenberger I wanted to appreciate your cinematic skills :) For the short form vignettes it is not worth the effort to upload to YouTube, but for the "Zapruder" ones maybe you can be granted permission to upload onto YouTube? Unlisted maybe?

Learning a lot btw from the AAR, lethality, accuracy/reliability (or lack thereof) and spotting abilities. The Soviet gear is less of a mystery to me due to CMSF2.

 

Edited by BletchleyGeek
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Never knew those saggers were that deadly. Did I understand correctly that their hit probability increases with range? @Bil Hardenberger the new TOE feature you were mentioning, do you mean that the game includes certain pre-formed formations out of the box or that is possible to make these kind of formations on-the-fly? I am guessing more included formations but just wanted to make sure.

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32 minutes ago, Bil Hardenberger said:

Apologies to all... here is the last half of the GIF that did not play properly in my turn 8 report.  Evidently three ATGMs were fired at this M-150.. two if which hit.

T08_D-Gv2.gif

The Eighth Minute post updated as well.

Great action shots!

Had it kept reversing I guess it could have made it to safety in time?
With 3 of his BMPs reloading, they are vulnerable now - but I guess there's more than enough support with them to stop you capitalizing on it. 

In CMSF2 I've more than once lost a BMP (gunner) because they decided to fire an ATGM at a building ordered to area fire (with 73mm/30mm), after which the gunner starts reloading and suddenly becomes vulnerable to MG fire (rather unexpected).

 

Edited by Lethaface
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35 minutes ago, stikkypixie said:

Never knew those saggers were that deadly. Did I understand correctly that their hit probability increases with range? @Bil Hardenberger the new TOE feature you were mentioning, do you mean that the game includes certain pre-formed formations out of the box or that is possible to make these kind of formations on-the-fly? I am guessing more included formations but just wanted to make sure.

Yep. Included.  

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2 hours ago, stikkypixie said:

Never knew those saggers were that deadly. Did I understand correctly that their hit probability increases with range? @Bil Hardenberger the new TOE feature you were mentioning, do you mean that the game includes certain pre-formed formations out of the box or that is possible to make these kind of formations on-the-fly? I am guessing more included formations but just wanted to make sure.

Sagger needed ~500m (<-- totally from memory: possibly 300m?) for the operator to get it fully under control. So, inside of that range (whatever it is: again, 500m is a distant recollection), they could hit targets, but it was much harder. Once past that distance, it was much easier to guide.

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12 hours ago, BletchleyGeek said:

The last GIF doesn't play for me, probably my browser doesn't like big GIFs.

Be prepared though. Animated GIF format from 1987 is the way of the future, and youtube will soon consist mostly of animated GIFs.   ;)

Really I am not complaining. I kinda like them. Thanks for making these.

 

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Eight Minute - BDA and Some Movements

I thought you'd be interested in seeing the battle damage from the two Saggers that hit M-150(1/4).  Very low on the hull front.. I am not usually that careless when checking Hull Down.. lesson learned!

T-08_OA.png

M-150(1/5) is reversing slightly to improve its position... note that in the following image it looks like this vehicle can spot a T-64 on EAA-1.. but it cannot target it.. so with this reverse move he will pull out of any view on EAA1.

T-08_OD.png

 

2nd Platoon

I have made some decisions based on what I have seen so far and with the Soviets movements and unit placement.. also remember I am getting my second and final reinforcement in two minutes. 

With what you have seen so far in this AAR as a guide, and after reading the following.. lets play a game, try to answer the following... 

What is Bil planning?  :D 

  • Clue the First, I am shifting all four of the 2nd Platoon tanks to my right:

T-08_OB.png

  • Clue the second, the two M-150s in this platoon are moving forward... note the location of their covered arcs:

T-08_OC.png

Looking forward to reading your guesses... it'll be a few turns before I confirm or deny them, but light it up folks.

Bil

Edited by Bil Hardenberger
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Thanks to @Pete WenmanI can link the pictures to places in the map. My guess is that you're preparing to advance on the town with your right flank, and also covering your back. You're moving your armor to what to me looks like a very safe FUP. It also incidentally would be a good position for your armor to be part of a KZ. If I am not wrong, you're moving them to what looks like a hamlet with a few buildings and a treeline, with possible keyholed battle positions. Not sure who are the dismounts on your right flank, but I presume they are taking with them their Dragon missiles.

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21 minutes ago, BletchleyGeek said:

Thanks to @Pete WenmanI can link the pictures to places in the map. My guess is that you're preparing to advance on the town with your right flank, and also covering your back. You're moving your armor to what to me looks like a very safe FUP. It also incidentally would be a good position for your armor to be part of a KZ. If I am not wrong, you're moving them to what looks like a hamlet with a few buildings and a treeline, with possible keyholed battle positions. Not sure who are the dismounts on your right flank, but I presume they are taking with them their Dragon missiles.

Excellent Miquel.  Not saying whether you re right or wrong.  :)  

FYI the "dismounts" shown at the tip of the arrow in the tank image are my mortar platoon and Troop HQ... just to clarify the details a bit.

Bil

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Provoke the enemy to attack your ATGM assets and use the armor from concealed positions to ambush them from the flank. I suspect at the end of the hunt move your ATGM's on top of the APC's will be followed by a reverse move. The armor has a natural approach route on the right to point 401. I see an FO did he call for Air support or artillery? 

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Bil,

Thanks for doing yet another beta AAR - I know that providing your customary level of detail in maps/analysis/blood-boards must absorb an immense amount of time and effort so (if you're not tired of hearing it) I wanted to let you know it's appreciated. Really interested to see how this battle develops.

My understanding is that your force basically has little effective infantry combat power (assuming your six 'Scout Teams' are small, 2-4 men squads). By contrast, it seems likely the Russians have 2+ platoons of dedicated line infantry dismounts. Are you concerned that if your opponent gets his infantry into the town objective that you won't have any good way to ferret him back out? It seems to me like your goal is to dominate the space around the town with firepower but may have a lot of difficulty later in the battle if you can't decisively win the long range, tit-for-tat phase.

On another note, have you considered making fresh updates to your Battle Drill blog? It just so happens that today marks one year and a day (I think) since your last update. I really enjoy the content on your blog, and would love to see it expanded upon, your time/interest level permitting.

For example, I'd be interested in seeing you finish the Rifle Platoon series. I also think a more in depth tutorial explaining how to analyze a map, things to look for/identifying approaches/key terrain features, etc. would be very useful. Men like yourself with formal military training may take it for granted, but for us civilians it's not always as obvious to look at a map and understand all the tactical implications of the geography. At least that's something I have a lot of trouble wrapping my head around.

Thanks again, and good luck in defending Dolbach.

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2 hours ago, Bil Hardenberger said:

FYI the "dismounts" shown at the tip of the arrow in the tank image are my mortar platoon and Troop HQ..

Cheers @Bil Hardenberger, I was assuming you had  1 mech rifle platoon and 1 scout platoons attached to your command. Re-reading the "Troops" section of your analysis, now I realise that you actually have two scout platoons. Besides the ability to spot for artillery, what kind of anti-tank weapons do they have? Just LAWs?

Edited by BletchleyGeek
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4 hours ago, Bil Hardenberger said:

 

  • clue the second, the two M-150s in this platoon are moving forward... note the location of their covered arcs:

T-08_OC.png

Looking forward to reading your guesses... it'll be a few turns before I confirm or deny them, but light it up folks.

Bil

Couple of tips for you and any readers:

1. Why do your tank hunter hulldown commands have "hunt" at the end? This risks going to far in the hulldown. Units don't spot fast enough to also get in perfect hulldown against the thing they spot. 

I manually check with the target command one action spot at a time against the location I want to be in hulldown to. The first action spot that says "hulldown" I put the move order to. (or do you just use the hunt command where I use the regular move orders to be extra sure here?)

 

2. The "cover arch"-command. It doesn't matter for spotting how wide it is. It only orients the sensors(heads and turret) to the central direction of the arch. It is optimal to use 180 degree max range arch with the middle of the arch pointing at the intended focus area.

But of course if you want to prevent the unit from shooting anything else than lets say one unit, it is a good idea to use narrower arch.

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9 hours ago, Bil Hardenberger said:

What is Bil planning?  :D

Not sure. It looks like there might be a bit of crossfire in the offing- the M150s covering the right treeline and the M60s covering the centre and the left.

That said, I feel like I would want to be on the other side of the valley by now (terrain, speed and fields of fire permitting obviously). There's nothing like interrupting someone's Boyd Cycle by assuming a position they can't afford to ignore.

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Bil's plan: Obviously, you are bypassing the resistance! Hit him where he's soft. It looks to me like you're making a flank rush and will attempt to attack MOSCOW! Once there, your forces will topple the war-mongering Soviet ruling cabal, AND gain control of their distribution network. 

This move will simultaneously knock out two of the three legs needed for them to prosecute the war.

After you occupy the Kremlin, Dolbach...all the Dolbachs...will fall into your hands.

Color me impressed.

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11 hours ago, Bil Hardenberger said:

Eight Minute - BDA and Some Movements

I thought you'd be interested in seeing the battle damage from the two Saggers that hit M-150(1/4).  Very low on the hull front.. I am not usually that careless when checking Hull Down.. lesson learned!

T-08_OA.png

M-150(1/5) is reversing slightly to improve its position... note that in the following image it looks like this vehicle can spot a T-64 on EAA-1.. but it cannot target it.. so with this reverse move he will pull out of any view on EAA1.

T-08_OD.png

 

2nd Platoon

I have made some decisions based on what I have seen so far and with the Soviets movements and unit placement.. also remember I am getting my second and final reinforcement in two minutes. 

With what you have seen so far in this AAR as a guide, and after reading the following.. lets play a game, try to answer the following... 

What is Bil planning?  :D 

  • Clue the First, I am shifting all four of the 2nd Platoon tanks to my right:

T-08_OB.png

  • Clue the second, the two M-150s in this platoon are moving forward... note the location of their covered arcs:

T-08_OC.png

Looking forward to reading your guesses... it'll be a few turns before I confirm or deny them, but light it up folks.

Bil

My guess:
you plan to lure him into advancing on your right flank, with the second tank platoon staying out of sight but ready to move into hull down and shoot and scoot against such a movement, while the TOWs are positioned to fire ATGM at armor that pops up hill crest but out of LOS/LOF from the bulk of his forces further down.

Your last tank platoon will move to the left flank, aiming to get side shots into any forces moving on your right flank (if LOS/LOF allows that at least).
Your infantry will cautiously move forward through the center and utilize covered approaches as much as possible, with the aim scouting while getting closer towards the objective without becoming engaged just yet. Although any dragon ATGM teams will be looking to get sideshots on any of his armour / IFVs which advance forward up the hill.

Something along those lines. 

Edit: also, more smoke in front of his treeline and or cluster munition artillery strike along his SBF positions when identified. At the moment it seems the treeline would be a nice target but the area around the bridge from where your TOW M150 was targeted, would be a nice option as well. I guess you plan to strike only when it's clear enough where and if a SBF position will be established.

Edited by Lethaface
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