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New things added to the new thing


MikeyD
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I love everything I'm seeing about Cold War!

I understand that an initial release in a new family can't include everything, but one thing I've not seen mentioned is whether there will be a full set of urban terrain options included: tall buildings, city doodads, shopping malls, etc.

After all, what's the point of the Fulda Gap if you can't go to Frankfurt? 🙂

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1 hour ago, Holman said:

shopping malls

Shopping malls are quite rare in Germany, most of them opened in the 90s and early 2000s.
What is very common is shopping streets, or some bigger shopping buildings, but malls are very american.
But I still would like to see taller buildings with flat roofs. Office buildings, rental apartments, schools.. stuff like that.

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Maybe this has been discussed already, but is the base game going to have US and USSR troops only or are there going to be DDR and BRD troops as well? If the fighting is in Germany I think the both German countries should be involved somehow unless they are supposed to have the duty of guarding their borders and other areas in the respective countries and leave the fighting to the two main opponents.

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4 hours ago, BornGinger said:

Maybe this has been discussed already, but is the base game going to have US and USSR troops only or are there going to be DDR and BRD troops as well? If the fighting is in Germany I think the both German countries should be involved somehow unless they are supposed to have the duty of guarding their borders and other areas in the respective countries and leave the fighting to the two main opponents.

The Fulda Gap sector really was the responsibility of US V Corps, with just a small number of German units involved.

It would make sense for German units (on both sides) to come with an expansion covering battles farther to the north.  And there's the British Army of the Rhine sector as well.

Edited by Holman
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On 2/20/2021 at 1:38 PM, Sgt.Squarehead said:

That sounds familiar.....TBH I could just get off my lazy ****, go next door and look at a book, but there's too much going on in here!  :P

Actually come to think of it I probably have it as a .pdf too.  :rolleyes:

Found an answer in FM 17-12 (1978):

Canister_Beehive_FM17-12_1978.thumb.jpg.803fc00ebc23232e9c7269853c873472.jpg

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The fun fact is that during the time my father served in the German Army at least nuclear shells for the field artillery were considered viable and tactically sound. 

I'm not quite sure about the "Davy Crockett" (M28/M29), but I recall seeing something in his old training manual... I'm NOT talking about missiles, but rather nuclear ammo within the scope of the game.

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33 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

The fun fact is that during the time my father served in the German Army at least nuclear shells for the field artillery were considered viable and tactically sound. 

I'm not quite sure about the "Davy Crockett" (M28/M29), but I recall seeing something in his old training manual... I'm NOT talking about missiles, but rather nuclear ammo within the scope of the game.

I think not within the scope of the game really. I doubt nuclear weapons would be shot as close support for units engaged in combat. I would also presume the decision to use these weapons would be made higher up than what the game depicts. For crying out loud we cannot even call in support from strategic bombers like B52 or missiles like SCUD or ATACMS. Why would tactical nukes be in?

This would have to be addressed in the scenario start condition and when the map was made.

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Hi all, really looking forward to this module. I served in BAOR from 1983 - 1988, so a little after this initial release. From my time at least i would say one of the main concerns was NBC warfare, not so much Nuclear at this stage but definitely Biological and Gas. I would estimate we spent about 80% of the time whilst on Exercise in our NBC suits.

Nobody really knew what was going to happen, but initially there would of been a big fear of Chemical warfare, it would be good if this could be simulated somehow. i know at the time that any smoke, cloud, mist etc i saw and i would of had my mask on pronto.

Training in NBC gear was extremely tiring and cumbersome, especially in the Summer months so even if reduced visibility, higher exhaustion etc could be modelled.

I'm on the right in the picture below, taken about 85, with a typical bit of squaddie humour 😉. I see if i can find anything more relevant, i think i still have the old 'Survive To Fight' pamphlet in the loft.

cheers all 

 

 

img028.jpg

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On 2/22/2021 at 3:03 PM, slippy said:

Hi all, really looking forward to this module. I served in BAOR from 1983 - 1988, so a little after this initial release. From my time at least i would say one of the main concerns was NBC warfare, not so much Nuclear at this stage but definitely Biological and Gas. I would estimate we spent about 80% of the time whilst on Exercise in our NBC suits.

Nobody really knew what was going to happen, but initially there would of been a big fear of Chemical warfare, it would be good if this could be simulated somehow. i know at the time that any smoke, cloud, mist etc i saw and i would of had my mask on pronto.

Training in NBC gear was extremely tiring and cumbersome, especially in the Summer months so even if reduced visibility, higher exhaustion etc could be modelled.

I'm on the right in the picture below, taken about 85, with a typical bit of squaddie humour 😉. I see if i can find anything more relevant, i think i still have the old 'Survive To Fight' pamphlet in the loft.

cheers all 

 

 

img028.jpg

I've still got my respirator ... for some reason the QM didn't want it when I dekitted, yet I still ended up getting billed for something anodyne like a set of KFS and a plastic mug.  I've also got all my NBC Chemical Downwind Message, STRKEWARN and other report formats and plotting templates just in case ...

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7 hours ago, Combatintman said:

I've still got my respirator ... for some reason the QM didn't want it when I dekitted, yet I still ended up getting billed for something anodyne like a set of KFS and a plastic mug.  I've also got all my NBC Chemical Downwind Message, STRKEWARN and other report formats and plotting templates just in case ...

I went to a school disco wearing a NBC respirator ('borrowed' from a friend's older brother who was in the army) in 1979. It was remarkably effective at electing the attention of the opposite sex - surprisingly. When I wear it now my wife just calls me 'a big creepy bastard'. Times change eh? ;)  

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On 2/22/2021 at 5:48 AM, Earl Grey said:

The fun fact is that during the time my father served in the German Army at least nuclear shells for the field artillery were considered viable and tactically sound. 

I'm not quite sure about the "Davy Crockett" (M28/M29), but I recall seeing something in his old training manual... I'm NOT talking about missiles, but rather nuclear ammo within the scope of the game.

My secondary specialty in the US Army was Nuclear Weapons - Field Artillery primary specialty, , commissioned coincidentally in 1979 (so nuclear warhead artillery shells, 155mm and 8" howitzer fired). Also spent a few years doing research in the field of nuclear non-proliferation, and about 30 years in nuclear propulsion and radiation protection. A few points:

1)  Pointless to include them in the game as the blast would cover a whole CM map. (give or take, depending on whether it was 155 or 8" that was fired).

2) Mostly the projected use by the US was at 2d and 3d echelon troops assembling for continuing the attack, so way behind the Soviet front line unit you are fighting on the map, to isolate the front line units from reinforcements.

3) Conversely to 2), NO ONE thought that anyone in NATO/US would authorize nuclear strikes on anything inside West Germany, which made having them pretty pointless, really. 

4) Considering the expected course of a Soviet invasion of West Germany, the most important thing I learned was exactly how to blow the warheads up into tiny little pieces so that they wouldn't fall into Soviet hands (blow them up conventionally - which you can do without setting off the warhead). 

5) The consensus at the time was that any use of tactical/battlefield nuclear weapons would not remain contained and would rapidly escalate to a general nuclear exchange. It seemed both sides felt this was true (it later came out) which makes it unlikely they would be used.

6) Lastly, personal opinion (facetiously) - we're talking firing nukes out of artillery - you just don't want to be that close.

Dave 

Edited by Ultradave
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17 minutes ago, Ultradave said:

3) Conversely to 2), NO ONE thought that anyone in NATO/US would authorize nuclear strikes on anything inside West Germany, which made having them pretty pointless, really. 

4) Considering the expected course of a Soviet invasion of West Germany, the most important thing I learned was exactly how to blow the warheads up into tiny little pieces so that they wouldn't fall into Soviet hands (blow them up conventionally - which you can do without setting off the warhead). 

5) The consensus at the time was that any use of tactical/battlefield nuclear weapons would not remain contained and would rapidly escalate to a general nuclear exchange. It seemed both sides felt this was true (it later came out) which makes it unlikely they would be used.

Bless you for posting these words of sanity in an otherwise "nukes gone wild" speculative environment. 🤣 😁

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