A War Without Mercy (FB).

[chuckdyke]

Has anyone played this 'Scenario'? The Operation orders are a little unclear. To make it playable I have the feeling we must follow the script. Especially the pincher movement. 

[Warts 'n' all]

"Alice, have you seen what that cosmetic surgeon from out west did to Chuck?"  ... 

 

[Lethaface]

Playing it in PBEM at the moment. I think it's pretty straight forward what the orders are: some parts need to be occupied, other parts 'touched' as in to clear the way forwards. Historically the tanks went by themselves and moved to the orchards to attack from there. Also historically the US forces lost quite hard and the attack failed after very bloody streetfighting.

Obviously I didn't follow the historical approach for my PBEM playthrough ;-).

Against the AI you could try a historic approach but don't be surprised if you lose a brigade worth of pixel forces.

 

[Lethaface]

5 hours ago, Warts 'n' all said:

"Alice, have you seen what that cosmetic surgeon from out west did to Chuck?"  ... 

 

 Alice: nosey lil' fella you are. 

[chuckdyke]

10 hours ago, Warts 'n' all said:

"Alice, have you seen what that cosmetic surgeon from out west did to Chuck?"  ... 

 

That is Fritz my late Rottweiler, he deserved the Iron Cross.

[chuckdyke]

5 hours ago, Lethaface said:

Playing it in PBEM at the moment. I think it's pretty straight forward what the orders are: some parts need to be occupied, other parts 'touched' as in to clear the way forwards. Historically the tanks went by themselves and moved to the orchards to attack from there. Also historically the US forces lost quite hard and the attack failed after very bloody streetfighting.

Obviously I didn't follow the historical approach for my PBEM playthrough ;-).

Against the AI you could try a historic approach but don't be surprised if you lose a brigade worth of pixel forces.

 

Yes, the Scenario Approach is designed to respond AI triggers which makes it playable. Otherwise, you can approach the orchard with no resistance whatsoever. Playing the AI just follow the historical approach. Thank you. 

Edited February 16, 2021 by chuckdyke
spelling

[Lethaface]

11 minutes ago, chuckdyke said:

Yes, the Scenario Approach is designed to respond AI triggers which makes it playable. Otherwise, you can approach the orchard with no resistance whatsoever. Playing the AI just follow the historical approach. Thank you. 

Good luck and enjoy! I'm really enjoying the PBEM, although it can be quite the task of playing a turn. There's like 3-4 battles going on at the same time. 

[BletchleyGeek]

53 minutes ago, Lethaface said:

There's like 3-4 battles going on at the same time. 

As we were discussing on Discord,  big scenarios come with their own set of challenges and joys. One of my favs by @ASL Veteran (I am also playing "Colossal Crack" against the AI).

Edited February 17, 2021 by BletchleyGeek

[chuckdyke]

4 hours ago, Lethaface said:

Good luck and enjoy! I'm really enjoying the PBEM, although it can be quite the task of playing a turn. There's like 3-4 battles going on at the same time. 

How many turns on PBEM a day? If it is one turn each in one day, it can take 2 months. I figured that out too each company responsible for its own area. 

[BletchleyGeek]

IIRC we started the game in November '20? Lockdown was useful, as I was working until late at night and sometimes we could do 2 or 3 turns a day. But then we take little breaks in between, as it suits us really. I went on holidays for 4 weeks for instance, and we have had short breaks as we're too busy or just too tired after work, family etc.

Edited February 17, 2021 by BletchleyGeek

[chuckdyke]

5 minutes ago, BletchleyGeek said:

IIRC we started the game in November '20? Lockdown was useful, as I was working until late at night and sometimes we could do 2 or 3 turns a day. But then we take little breaks in between, as it suits us really. I went on holidays for 4 weeks for instance, and we have had short breaks as we're too busy or just too tired after work, family etc.

I gather that much I never touched the huge battles much; besides, I have my little custom rules in regards FOW, but this is a foggy environment any way. Against the AI after4 or 5 turns my judgment becomes sloppy.

[BletchleyGeek]

Just now, chuckdyke said:

I gather that much I never touched the huge battles much; besides, I have my little custom rules in regards FOW, but this is a foggy environment any way. Against the AI after4 or 5 turns my judgment becomes sloppy.

Yep, I find also the need to look at something else - the mental effort is pretty intense. 

[Ales Dvorak]

21 hours ago, Warts 'n' all said:

"Alice, have you seen what that cosmetic surgeon from out west did to Chuck?"  ... 

Vegetarian?

Love,

Alice

[chuckdyke]

10 minutes ago, Ales Dvorak said:

Vegetarian?

Love,

Alice

He looks better than the Abrams. 

[Lethaface]

9 hours ago, BletchleyGeek said:

As we were discussing on Discord,  big scenarios come with their own set of challenges and joys. One of my favs by @ASL Veteran (I am also playing "Colossal Crack" against the AI).

Indeed  

I think this is the first really huge scenario I play in PBEM and one of my favorites too!

 

4 hours ago, chuckdyke said:

I gather that much I never touched the huge battles much; besides, I have my little custom rules in regards FOW, but this is a foggy environment any way. Against the AI after4 or 5 turns my judgment becomes sloppy.

 

4 hours ago, BletchleyGeek said:

Yep, I find also the need to look at something else - the mental effort is pretty intense. 

Like @BletchleyGeek says, the mental effort is pretty intense at times. There are 9 platoons of infantry and I think two tank battalions under my command (not all full strength, but 50+ tanks orso; although some have been lost, which helps  ). It also helps to make plans on platoon level and give orders to squads/tanks from there. But still it can be overwhelming if you had a busy day and a 'full head'.
Turns can sometime take up an hour or even more.

But as we've been playing PBEMs since a couple of years, we don't have to worry about finishing the game; it will get finished at the pace we can do. Sometimes faster, sometimes slower. 
However, the effort is surely worth it!

 

[chuckdyke]

1 hour ago, Lethaface said:

Indeed  

I think this is the first really huge scenario I play in PBEM and one of my favorites too!

 

 

Like @BletchleyGeek says, the mental effort is pretty intense at times. There are 9 platoons of infantry and I think two tank battalions under my command (not all full strength, but 50+ tanks orso; although some have been lost, which helps  ). It also helps to make plans on platoon level and give orders to squads/tanks from there. But still it can be overwhelming if you had a busy day and a 'full head'.
Turns can sometime take up an hour or even more.

But as we've been playing PBEMs since a couple of years, we don't have to worry about finishing the game; it will get finished at the pace we can do. Sometimes faster, sometimes slower. 
However, the effort is surely worth it!

 

Yes, also I 'unlock' my camera settings according the Key Terrain my units occupy. In this scenario it doesn't matter as we have poor visibility. A soldier out of contact camera position 1 only. Camera 2 AFV's open turret. Camera 3 upper floors of buildings Camera 4 is the Birds Eye view 9Key Terrain and when the FO has called for aircover. Camera 5-9 are maps for troops who have binoculars. It makes playing the AI more challenging and realistic. Especially Camera 4 blows the FOW even on Iron. Yes the C2 must be connected before Camera 9 can be used. Little of topic but we play it like this.  

[Lethaface]

4 minutes ago, chuckdyke said:

Yes, also I 'unlock' my camera settings according the Key Terrain my units occupy. In this scenario it doesn't matter as we have poor visibility. A soldier out of contact camera position 1 only. Camera 2 AFV's open turret. Camera 3 upper floors of buildings Camera 4 is the Birds Eye view 9Key Terrain and when the FO has called for aircover. Camera 5-9 are maps for troops who have binoculars. It makes playing the AI more challenging and realistic. Especially Camera 4 blows the FOW even on Iron. Yes the C2 must be connected before Camera 9 can be used. Little of topic but we play it like this.  

Nice way of getting immersed against the AI, although I imagine the 'increased workload overhead' to become quite high when playing with more than a company or so (even selecting a unit you want to select becomes difficult, unless you scroll through each with the hotkeys). 
If I play against the AI I usually hold back area firing on spotting contacts from units that don't have the contact, although some of the more challenging scenario's are probably designed taking into account this advantage of the player.

Also, often if I place myself in the boots of a Plt HQ and noticing fire coming from a village / whatever, I instruct the platoon to lay suppressive fire on any window / place which could be used to ambush / fire upon our route of advance. The Plt HQ don't need to see the actual incoming to be worried about his troops taking fire and take security measures. 

[chuckdyke]

1 minute ago, Lethaface said:

Nice way of getting immersed against the AI, although I imagine the 'increased workload overhead' to become quite high when playing with more than a company or so (even selecting a unit you want to select becomes difficult, unless you scroll through each with the hotkeys). 
If I play against the AI I usually hold back area firing on spotting contacts from units that don't have the contact, although some of the more challenging scenario's are probably designed taking into account this advantage of the player.

Also, often if I place myself in the boots of a Plt HQ and noticing fire coming from a village / whatever, I instruct the platoon to lay suppressive fire on any window / place which could be used to ambush / fire upon our route of advance. The Plt HQ don't need to see the actual incoming to be worried about his troops taking fire and take security measures. 

On Camera Position 9 you can select in the usual way. It is realistic you have a 2D map. Area fire once a contact icon has been generated it needs to be shared prior to that you can waste ammunition wherever you like. Modern war fare the troops have a PDA the C2 is in place then Camera Position 4 becomes available if the spotting unit has the birds eye view. Takes a while before you get used to it but for me it is more fun. 

[chuckdyke]

@Lethaface MG Bridge No 7 is such a scenario in Battle for Normandy. You can determine where the fire comes from. By listening inside the building. Which is fair, patrolling at times.  Stop, Look, Listen and Smell. We can't smell on the PC, but we can do anything else. Still the C2 must be in place before the supporting units can participate. The Dutch did this with the train hijacking. Their listening devices could hear inside the train, it became a textbook example for recon. Two F104 Starfighters going through the sound barrier masked their activities. 

Edited February 17, 2021 by chuckdyke
spelling.

[BletchleyGeek]

5 hours ago, chuckdyke said:

The Dutch did this with the train hijacking

Jeez mate, that was a bit of obscure trivia. 

Another great scenario,  too.

[Vacillator]

6 hours ago, chuckdyke said:

MG Bridge No 7 is such a scenario in Battle for Normandy. The Dutch did this with the train hijacking. Two F104 Starfighters going through the sound barrier masked their activities. 

Errmmm I assume your concentration shifted mid-post?

[chuckdyke]

2 hours ago, Vacilllator said:

Errmmm I assume your concentration shifted mid-post?

Nope it was an example of recon by listening. The latter was by more modern means it goes back 40 years. You don't have to spot the enemy visually. In WW 2 they could make out where the fire of an MG42 comes from, already 40 years ago they could identify individuals by their heartbeat. 

[chuckdyke]

3 hours ago, BletchleyGeek said:

Jeez mate, that was a bit of obscure trivia. 

Another great scenario,  too.

Principle was the same to listen inside the objective. At least the game could give you a contact icon.

[Vacillator]

19 minutes ago, chuckdyke said:

already 40 years ago they could identify individuals by their heartbeat

Really?

[chuckdyke]

8 minutes ago, Vacilllator said:

Really?

Yes, paired with their voices. Special Forces approached the trains which were blackened out and planted their devices. Their activities were masked by 2 F104 going through the sound barrier just above. Once they moved in the Special Unit knew the positions of the bad guys. Now 40 years later, drones maybe the size of a housefly. 

Pity the link doesn't say how they identified the hostage takers, but note the train was blacked out by the hostage takers. Their movements were traced whenever they moved. You must use auto-translate. 

Reconstructie treinkaping De Punt - RTV Noord - YouTube