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Combat Mission History


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Sigh. I started to read and I'm sure I will eventually read it all but bloody hell the second topic after introducing the line up of a 20 year success story is to bitch again about BFC's upgrade strategy. An upgrade strategy that is key to that success BTW. If CMBN was not updated I am not sure if I would still be playing it - but I am nearly every day. Just because some people are confused does not mean something is confusing or wrong. I know there are people that don't like to hear it but - grow up. No other software out there is supported with bug fixes forever. It is normal for new features and new programs to require newer versions of other software that they interact with. It is just the way software works.

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Seems like a very impressive and by far the most detailed look at the CM family of games.  An enjoyable read and summary of every title released since 2000.  Re: "Just because ... people are confused does not mean something is confusing..." that speaks for itself...

The Wargamer also usefully reviewed best Cold War & Modern wargames:

https://www.wargamer.com/best-cold-war-modern-warfare-games

Edited by Erwin
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Really what Battlefront is running into is that for the last ~10 years its become increasingly common for games to get constant updates for no additional fee. Arma 3, Darkest Hour, War Thunder, Verdun, Dota 2, Hunt Showdown, PUBG, Post Scriptum, Don't Starve, Half-Life, half-Life 2, Call of Duty, Command Ops 2, Quake II (now with RTX support), Due Process, Fall Guys, Hell Let Loose, Rising Storm 2, Red Orchestra 2, Heliborne, Planetside 2, Squad, Rainbow Six Siege, Counter-Strike, Battlefield V, Graviteam,  Crusader Kings, hearts of iron, Stellaris, Kerbal Space Program, Prison Architect, Among Us, Barotrauma, Dead by Daylight, The FOrest, Killing Floor, Killing FLoor 2, Magicka, Left 4 Dead 2, Team Fortress 2, Stardew Valley, Talbetop Simulator, Terraria, Call to Arms, Mount & Blade, Unity of Command 2, Birgador, Fallen Enchantress, Mafia II, Superhot, Project Winter  This is just a quick perusal of games and I'm sure you could fairly easy get a larger list but paid features isn't the name of the game. In many cases its actually part of the whole sales pitch that features are never paid for just content (Paradox has gone very heavily into this). To the point that what Battlefront doing is, in fact, not the standard. I actually cannot think of any games that sell features in the way that CM does? Anyway my point is Battlefront is going to bear a certain amount of critical comments because of that system since its effectively a strange thing to see in 2021. If this was 2005 it'd be fairly unique since patches were hardly even a thing but its a full 16 years from that point.

I suspect that packaging engine upgrades with purchases would likely be  seen more favorably than have them exist purely standalone. Since they would seen to be less of a blocker to new purchases. Effectively a wink wink nudge nudge to spend more rather than less.

----

Anyway I think it makes a bit more sense to read this as a buying guide rather than a history given that they appear to be spending more time trying to layout each game and module rather than talking about the actual history of the series. And in the sense of it being a buying guide the comment on the pricing makes sense.

Quote

Ultimately, your choice of which game to buy should be guided by the period and theatre you are most interested in.

This quote gives it away pretty heavily. And each game gets a little blurb with sometimes inaccurate information. E.G. Market Garden module requires engine 2.0 when it in fact requires that engine 3 or 4 now. Unless you have an older engine 2 purchase?


 

 


 

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10 minutes ago, Pelican Pal said:

To the point that what Battlefront doing is, in fact, not the standard. I actually cannot think of any games that sell features in the way that CM does? Anyway my point is Battlefront is going to bear a certain amount of critical comments because of that system since its effectively a strange thing to see in 2021.

See, now that is a fair criticism. When they started the concept it was a new thing and you are pointing out that perhaps now it is not appropriate. Excellent point.

My issue is not that BFC is beyond criticism: its that the BS that "paid updates are confusing" is just that - BS. The WarGamer article explains it quite well actually and it has been explained here multiple times. There is nothing confusing about it - unless you have an agenda or read someone who has an agenda and now you are confused by them. Hence my earlier comment.

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15 minutes ago, IanL said:

 its that the BS that "paid updates are confusing" is just that - BS.

Maybe that's because it isn't what was written. The author is saying that it is confusing because certain content requires certain other content. The direct quote

"To make matters even more convoluted nearly all the DLC/expansion modules have different prerequisites (these have all been listed below). Some DLC requires you to also purchase the engine upgrades in order to function. Others require that you own other DLC modules. Consequently, not only are things confusing but things now cost more than you may have initially thought."

I happen to think that Battlefront's upgrade and patching methods are the most archaic of any game I still play. I like Combat Mission, and own most of the titles, but it can be considered behind the times for some of us. And certainly for me.

 

 

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Whats key, I think, is that the engine upgrades exist alongside new content purchases. Like there are two pretty common methods of doing things:

1. You get new features for free but new content is paid.

2. You get new content and features with a new purchase.

Battlefront is taking this third path where new content is paid but so are new features AND the new features and content must be purchased separately. Like I can't recall a situation where I had to buy a feature pack in order to buy a content pack before. Actually until someone told me on the forum I was intending to buy Fire and Rubble and I had just assumed it came with engine 4.

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Well to be fair, for Paradox anyway, some content does come free when they create an improvement but most of the additional / upgrade content comes with the purchase of the DLC.  So not everything is free when they upgrade.  Some fraction of the content is free and if you want all the new features unlocked you still have to buy the upgrade.

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It is perhaps not the most intuitive system but basically boils down to a way how they can and did support old titles going forward. I like it. Everything has pros and cons, for a system originating in 2005 orso I guess it has held up quite decent :)

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5 hours ago, ASL Veteran said:

So not everything is free when they upgrade.  Some fraction of the content is free and if you want all the new features unlocked you still have to buy the upgrade.

iirc, and I might be wrong since its been a bit since I really got into a paradox game. They will have new features that require new content. So like Crusader Kings you can't use certain features that are limited to Islamic Caliphates if you don't own the DLC that allows you to play them.

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I agree with this part about WEGO and is one reason why I have duct tape on my RT switch after trying it once. 😊

"...However, this game was designed to be played using the WEGO system. That’s because, WEGO partially simulates the command and control challenges faced by commanders.

Under the WEGO system you are forced to cede control of your units to virtual commanders (dubbed TacAI), as they attempt to carry out your orders. You cannot react to the battlefield situation in real-time, depriving players of their ‘gods-eye’ view of the battlefield. It forces the player to make decisions based on incomplete information as you cannot instantly react to your opponent’s movements. In this way, WEGO merges the tactical depth and planning of turn-based gameplay with the intensity of real-time systems. Whilst it might not be for everyone, it does add an extra layer of realism to the overall experience and is worth trying out."

Edited by Blazing 88's
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2 hours ago, Blazing 88's said:

I agree with this part about WEGO and is one reason why I have duct tape on my RT switch after trying it once. 😊

"...However, this game was designed to be played using the WEGO system. That’s because, WEGO partially simulates the command and control challenges faced by commanders.

Under the WEGO system you are forced to cede control of your units to virtual commanders (dubbed TacAI), as they attempt to carry out your orders. You cannot react to the battlefield situation in real-time, depriving players of their ‘gods-eye’ view of the battlefield. It forces the player to make decisions based on incomplete information as you cannot instantly react to your opponent’s movements. In this way, WEGO merges the tactical depth and planning of turn-based gameplay with the intensity of real-time systems. Whilst it might not be for everyone, it does add an extra layer of realism to the overall experience and is worth trying out."

It's a bit of a shame that many of the youtubers that have shown off the game after the steam release are playing it in RT...

It really does BFC no favours...

Many of them seem to have a very imited understanding of the game and they play it like some kind off click-fest game in RT...In a simular fashion that they likely are playing other games...consequently it does not look all that great unfortunatelly...

CM shines in WEGO 😎 and what makes CM...CM...is thoughtful play in WEGO

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3 minutes ago, RepsolCBR said:

It's a bit of a shame that many of the youtubers that have shown off the game after the steam release are playing it in RT...

It really does BFC no favours...

Many of them seem to have a very imited understanding of the game and they play it like some kind off click-fest game in RT...In a simular fashion that they likely are playing other games...consequently it does not look all that great unfortunatelly...

CM shines in WEGO 😎 and what makes CM...CM...is thoughtful play in WEGO

Very true. I play WeGo for the recording of some new technique and to build a data base of what works and what doesn't, Sometimes it gets me into strife lesson learned I will reference the manual first but it is fun to experiment. If something doesn't look right like a 2 men team on hunt I try to do something about it. On WeGo you can record the small details on RTS you can't. 

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20 hours ago, Pelican Pal said:


... Anyway I think it makes a bit more sense to read this as a buying guide rather than a history given that they appear to be spending more time trying to layout each game and module rather than talking about the actual history of the series. And in the sense of it being a buying guide the comment on the pricing makes sense..
 

Agreed.

Read it yesterday and from the title of the piece was a bit disappointed by that.

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