Laser Warning Systems on Vehicles

[fireship4]

Laser warning systems on vehicles have a large effect on the use and effectiveness of tanks in CMBS.  They are likely highly classified, and so must be abstracted to some extent.  I would like to have a discussion on whether what we have in game at the moment is realistic, and secondarily on how it affects the tactics in game and on the modern battlefield.

If they are as effective as depicted, I think we can still agree some modification is needed to the TacAI's response on being lased.  Sometimes it is desirable to press ahead or not pop smoke.

It seems an apparent sea change in how certain tactical situations would play out compared to WW2 and the Cold War, yet something that would seemingly be easy to circumvent with passive ranging or wire-guidance.

[The_MonkeyKing]

I would like to have the ability to turn off LWS and maybe also APS. Same way we can already control buttoned up state of the tank with the "open up"-command. This would make things a lot easier and this is also done in real life.

[Sgt.Squarehead]

6 hours ago, The_MonkeyKing said:

I would like to have the ability to turn off LWS

+1.  "Stay still & shoot you cowards!" 

6 hours ago, The_MonkeyKing said:

and maybe also APS

Interesting.....I've seen some articles that suggest the Radars for APS have a very readily detectable signature.  CM:BS (& now CM:SF2) have a new EW metric, but retain the old Intelligence system.  I wonder if this shouldn't be expanded or complemented by a Surveillance metric (which could be countered in part by enemy EW).  Thus regardless of the Intelligence setting, vehicles with a prominent radar emission signature could show up as contact markers for the other side, depending on the strength of opposing Surveillance (mitigated by friendly EW).

Edited January 25, 2021 by Sgt.Squarehead

[A Canadian Cat]

10 hours ago, fireship4 said:

If they are as effective as depicted, I think we can still agree some modification is needed to the TacAI's response on being lased.  Sometimes it is desirable to press ahead or not pop smoke.

The way it is supposed to work - and I just experienced this in CMBS - is that if a tank spots an enemy and starts to engage the lazer warning system will not interrupt and the tank will fire before reacting. This makes good sense - if you are about to kill your enemy finish that job first. If your tank crew has not spotted anyone and they get lazed it is very much time to get away. Period. Given the lethality of the modern battlefield if you know you are detected by an enemy weapons system and you only have an idea of what direction they are - do. not. stick around.

Some previous discussions (at least one comment from a tanker):

 

Discussion about if the capability should even be on some tanks (again at lest one tanker commenting):

 

Some practical game advice on how the systems behave and what you can do plus some commentary from a tanker along with his advice - words to live by:

 

[fireship4]

Thanks for the links IanL, I am having a read through those discussions.  I have already learned something new, "fast" disables the behaviour until completed.  And that "pause" may work to keep a tank in position while being lased.

As I suggested above, If LWS were believed to be in common use by your enemy, I think tank crews would use other methods to set range when engaging them.  I still think some kind of switch might be in order to deal with the context the AI doesn't percieve.

Edited January 26, 2021 by fireship4

[Sgt.Squarehead]

19 hours ago, IanL said:

The way it is supposed to work - and I just experienced this in CMBS - is that if a tank spots an enemy and starts to engage the lazer warning system will not interrupt and the tank will fire before reacting. This makes good sense - if you are about to kill your enemy finish that job first. If your tank crew has not spotted anyone and they get lazed it is very much time to get away.

Finally saw this in action with my Abrams Killer T90AM last night (in an epic playthrough of @George MC's 'Rolling Thunder').....Is this something that was introduced with a patch? 

I've been playing CM:BS a long time now and I've genuinely never seen this before.

 

[A Canadian Cat]

2 hours ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

Is this something that was introduced with a patch? 

Nope. It always worked this way. The trouble is most times your units get lasered they are totally unaware of the enemy. To see this behaviour they have to have spotted the enemy - likely first too - and started to engage before the enemy starts to engage. It is just less common than we would wish

[Sgt.Squarehead]

3 hours ago, IanL said:

It is just less common than we would wish

Especially when playing Russia against the US.....TBH this game is going up in my estimation. 

I still think the T-90AM (& hopefully the T-72B3M & T-80BVM if we can persuade Battlefront to add them) should me moved a little closer to spotting parity.....It really can feel like US units are engaging 'cloaking devices' they way things stand now.

Edited January 26, 2021 by Sgt.Squarehead