Oddities & Weird In-game Stuff (O&WIS)

[Erwin]

Note: Some of the items are only pertinent to modern titles and other items are relevant to all titles.

Re CMSF2 (so far):1)  Spotting issues.  A two man scout team with no binoculars can spot enemy units at close to 3,000 meters much better than an FO (with super dooper optics tech) or an HQ with binocs.  Folks have opined that it's because one of the riflemen has a "Thermal Imager" attached to his rifle and that is why they spot so well.  However, if that is accurately simulated in CM2 then why don't all RL units have thermal imagers and scrap the expensive and heavy laser designators and other high-tech optics that seem so inferior in the game?

2)  Related to item 1) Once can have a scout team, an FO, an HQ, a Jav team etc all in the same location, literally lying on top of each other.  The scout team sees an enemy units - but even after many minutes the other teams cannot see it - they do not communicate.  There is something wrong with the C2 system.  Again... apologists say that in RL they often cannot see what their buddy can see.  However, since the Thermal Imager is so much more effective, wouldn't they simply borrow the rifle with the Thermal Imager so they could see for themselves and then line up their super dooper optical gear on the target so they could finally see it?

3)  The M1046 TOW Humvee crew can dismount and take the TOW launcher and missile with them.  According to the UI it takes something like 1.7 minutes to deploy the TOW and a lot longer to pack up.  But it never seems to deploy. 

4)  Related to item 2) It is very very hard to use any vehicle mounted ATGM in CM2 as "hull-down" doesn't mean that only the vehicle optics on the roof are exposed.  Instead the top of the vehicle is exposed and can be easily seen and fired at and destroyed.  Without being able to dismount the TOW in this example, it's usually suicidal to attempt to fire the TOW even from a hull-down position.

5)  Same is true for the M707 Humvee and other "Arty Spotting vehicles" with Laser and other high tech on the roof.  All of these cannot be safely used in CM2 "hull-down" as they can be easily seen and destroyed.

6)  The M1114 AGL (Automatic Grenade Launcher) Humvee crew can dismount with the AGL.  However, it must be a spare from the trunk as an AGL remains mounted on the Humvee and can be crewed and operated by another crew or inf team.  Is it correct that the M1114 carries two AGL's?  (Note that the crew of the M1114 with the 50 cal can also dismount and operate it, but in this case the Humvee no longer has the 50 cal mounted.)

7)  HQ's in CMSF2 cannot spot for arty or air.

 Heavy arty falling on top of enemy troops often doesn't incapacitate them.  While it's true that shrapnel may miss, the shock wave of a large explosion alone is usually deadly as it can liquefy one's innards.

9)  Several vehicles (including the M1046 TOW Humvee) have quantities of regular ammo eg: 5.56mm etc.  But it seems impossible to acquire any of it.  The crew cannot acquire it, and if you dismount em and mount an inf team, they also cannot acquire any ammo.

10) LOS/LOF issues.  While CM2 is supposed to be WYSIWYG it often doesn't work that way.  One can get down to level one and eyeball a situation.  But, what one sees from a location often is not what a unit will see at that same location.  Eg: The AI can see pixel-wide gaps in what human examination considers completely blocked LOS.  A related issue is that one can eyeball a situation like a road in town and there is no obstruction down a street to target a building.  But one finds that when one places a unit in that location, it cannot see or shoot at the building.  

11) Another LOS/LOF issue.  Frequently we find that a crew served weapon can see and target an enemy only to discover that it's only the 3rd ammo loader who can see the enemy, not the main gun/gunner.  However, it is usually impossible to move the MG or gun a few inches to a position where it can see and fire the primary weapon at the enemy.  

12)  Finding Hulldown positions is often problematic.  Some folks seem to like the "Hulldown Assist routine" available in the game.  But, often it simply leave the vehicle with no LOS to the desired target and one has to waste another turn (in WEGO obviously) manually moving the waypoints to get a hull-down position.  So, one may as well do it manually from the start.  The additional problem is that in the scenario am playing right now it is common that vehicles go from having "No LOS' to "Partial Hull Down" with no "Hulldown" option being able to be located in between.  One can spend many minutes dicking around with moving waypoints the shortest possible distance in this, that or the other direction to find a hull-done position (relative to the desired target), but one can only find either "No LOS" or "Partial Hulldown" positions.  It's unclear if this is an issue with the map, (maybe the terrain is strange), or the LOS routine.

13) Some vehicles like Bradleys when targeted vs a building don't use the desired weapon - their cannon - but instead fire their missiles - which often makes no sense.  (Target Light makes em use their MG's.)

14) SMOKE and buildings...  Smoke acts as if there are no obstructions or walls and will drift through a building as it is made of wire.  This is actually very helpful when one is attempting to assault a multi-room building.  But, doesn't reflect RL.

15) When one orders a SMOKE artillery strike and run out of SMOKE, the battery obviously still has all its HE rounds.  However, if you first order HE, when all shells are gone the battery has no SMOKE rounds left - they seem to have been used up as HE.  In the game, if an arty piece has 140 HE rounds and 40 SMOKE it means that it has 140 rounds total, including 40 rounds SMOKE.  So, if one uses 140 rounds of HE there will be no SMOKE available. 

16) Some SNIPER teams in CMSF2 carry 50 cal rounds, even though they possess no weapon that can use 50 cal rounds.  

17) Park your vehicle directly behind a small tree and any enemy fire that comes from that direction will hit the apparently indestructible tree and the vehicle may be 100% unaffected.  Unless the enemy gun moves, it can exhaust all its ammo in this way.  AI controlled guns especially can be made useless by this trick.  

18) Attempting to resupply a squad one may split off a two-man team to mount a vehicle, get the ammo, then debark and run to where its squad is.  That takes two turns.  However, the teams may not recombine.  A turn later when one again moves both parts of the squad to the same spot, they may still not recombine.  To get the teams to recombine one has to split the larger squad team into two and then move all three teams to the same spot.  Only then will the teams recombine to the full squad and complete ammo resupply.  

19) Heavy HE barrage does not seem to damage vehicle/armor subsystems as much as expected.

20) Some vehicles carry ammo that seems to be available for resupply.  But, the crew cannot ACQUIRE any, and/or neither can any other unit mount the vehicle to ACQUIRE any.

 

Edited January 18, 2021 by Erwin

[Sgt.Squarehead]

41 minutes ago, Erwin said:

7)  HQ's in CMSF2 cannot spot for arty or air.

WTF? 

Yes they can:

I sometimes wonder if you are playing the same games as me? 

[Erwin]

If that's been addressed then that is good and I can remove that item.  But, I have experienced that phenomenon in some CMSF2 games and I distinctly recall a thread here that said it was a known bug.  

Found it:  

 

Edited January 18, 2021 by Erwin

[Sgt.Squarehead]

So perhaps that what you should have specified, rather than making a broader claim that is patently false? 

[Erwin]

Well, as the thread proves the basic bug is there...  But, you are welcome to provide a rewrite as necessary and I'll add your edit to the next compilation. 

Also, am curious... how many of your designs have been released as finished?  I recall spending many, many hours testing your designs, but I can't recall ever receiving a 100% completed scenario or campaign from you.  Playing something that isn't another Beta would be awesome.  

Edited January 18, 2021 by Erwin

[BornGinger]

7 hours ago, Erwin said:

Folks have opined that it's because one of the riflemen has a "Thermal Imager" attached to his rifle and that is why they spot so well.

Is that maybe the reason to why the US troops on the ground floor of an eight floor building can spot a Russian scout team in hiding on the eigth floor? Very good thermal equipment to see through seven blocks of concrete with air in between.

That was in the demo and might have been corrected. I have never used a thermal equipment but doubt that being on the ground floor and see enemies on the eight floor with the help of such gear is possible.

[mjkerner]

Nice move, Erwin.
I love the Sarge’s betas! And of course, he produces, and produces, and produces some more. And offers well thought out comments and critiques. It’d be awesome to play one of your completed scenarios or campaigns one of these days, instead of endlessly playing one of your betas. But I haven’t actually seen one of them. Where do you post them?

[Erwin]

17 hours ago, BornGinger said:

Is that maybe the reason to why the US troops on the ground floor of an eight floor building can spot a Russian scout team in hiding on the eigth floor? Very good thermal equipment to see through seven blocks of concrete with air in between.

That was in the demo and might have been corrected. I have never used a thermal equipment but doubt that being on the ground floor and see enemies on the eight floor with the help of such gear is possible.

If CM2 is an accurate depiction of how things work, it also implies that the military may as well dump all its expensive FO rangefinder equipment and simply issue everyone a rifle-mounted thermal imager as those appear to be more effective at spotting enemies at long range (2.5Km+) and also (if the above is correct) within large buildings, at a fraction of the price.  

Personally, I think folks hold the CM2 engine to a ridiculously high standard.  This is an inexpensive COTS game and it is a marvel that it is as good as it is.  My O&WIS list is simply an effort to list odd, weird and possibly bugged items that hopefully can be addressed by BF in the fullness of time (CM3 - we're looking at you).  

[Sgt.Squarehead]

20 hours ago, Erwin said:

I recall spending many, many hours testing your designs

You tested one scenario, my first, over five years ago and you haven't stopped bleating about it since.

Haven't noticed much output from you in the meantime, other than more bleating and threads like this one pointing out errors that often don't actually exist. 

[Erwin]

Let's' see...  You start by inaccurately stating that item 7) in the "Weird List" was wrong.  Proof of the problem being experienced by others is then provided to you.  You are still unhappy - even though you have opportunity to redraft whatever text you think is more appropriate.  You fail to do that and instead start attacking on a totally different subject.  So predictable...

Am sure that many of us would love to play one of your completed designs as opposed to yet another Beta.  Perhaps you could list all the scenarios or campaigns that you have completely finished and have been released, so we can enjoy your work.  

 

[mjkerner]

Another d*ck move, Erwin! I asked you the same thing, but you never answered. All you seem to do here is bitch and moan and bitch and moan some more. Why don’t you try producing something? 

[Erwin]

Like most people here I enjoy playing the game. 

We keep having this same set of complaints re "why don't YOU do x, y or z every few years.  It's puzzling.  It's like complaining "Why don't you do all your own car repairs?  Why don't you do all your own taxes? Why don't you do your own plumbing?  Why don't you do all your own house construction?  Well, perhaps YOU do all those things.  Congratulations.  Unfortunately, most folks on these forums don't have the time, inclination or talent to do such things ... or to make mods, maps or scenarios.  

It's disturbing that collecting a list of weird phenomena, oddities and bugs that many others have mentioned all over these forums upsets certain folks so much.  It was intended to be helpful to those who do care about the problems they encounter in CM2.  

[Vacillator]

Output from anyone is appreciated (by me and many others).  I wouldn't try to suggest that people can do more, we all have other things to do, and while I'm not producing output it would not be a fair comment anyway.  All I can say is 'keep up the good work' for which we are grateful.

[mjkerner]

You overdo it by a factor of ten, but my real complaint is you needling Sarge (and many others over the years) about things they actually do provide, free, for your own G-D enjoyment. You’ve hit him up twice in two days. If you aren’t going to produce anything, and harass those that do, then I will tell you to F**k Off every time. You are a user and a taker, plain and simple, and there is a whole legion complaining about you off site. I broke my silence, because you complained one too many times about regular, non-BFC people who provide content—for free—for your enjoyment.  You can complain about BFC all you want (they just ignore you, as I have all this time, until now) but you are way off base when you complain about the guys who make  content for our enjoyment. And while you’re at it, it wouldn’t hurt to thank people who try to help you with issues (check your comments; these incidents, too, are legion) instead of doubling down like you did with Sarge. 
 

Elvis, I’ll gladly take a ban...it was worth it to get this off my chest!

[Artkin]

8 hours ago, Erwin said:

If CM2 is an accurate depiction of how things work, it also implies that the military may as well dump all its expensive FO rangefinder equipment and simply issue everyone a rifle-mounted thermal imager as those appear to be more effective at spotting enemies at long range (2.5Km+) and also (if the above is correct) within large buildings, at a fraction of the price.  

Personally, I think folks hold the CM2 engine to a ridiculously high standard.  This is an inexpensive COTS game and it is a marvel that it is as good as it is.  My O&WIS list is simply an effort to list odd, weird and possibly bugged items that hopefully can be addressed by BF in the fullness of time (CM3 - we're looking at you).  

Uhhh Erwin you made a thread about CM's issues and quirks bro. What are you talking about?

 

4 hours ago, Erwin said:

You fail to do that and instead start attacking on a totally different subject.  So predictable...

He comes off brash, but don't lose your cool. He is right.

 

 

On 1/18/2021 at 3:30 PM, Erwin said:

Also, am curious... how many of your designs have been released as finished?  I recall spending many, many hours testing your designs, but I can't recall ever receiving a 100% completed scenario or campaign from you.  Playing something that isn't another Beta would be awesome.  

On 1/18/2021 at 7:04 PM, mjkerner said:

"Nice move, Erwin."...
"It’d be awesome to play one of your completed scenarios or campaigns one of these days, instead of endlessly playing one of your betas. But I haven’t actually seen one of them. Where do you post them?"

 

50 minutes ago, mjkerner said:

You overdo it by a factor of ten, but my real complaint is you needling Sarge (and many others over the years) about things they actually do provide, free, for your own G-D enjoyment. You’ve hit him up twice in two days. If you aren’t going to produce anything, and harass those that do, then I will tell you to F**k Off every time. You are a user and a taker, plain and simple, and there is a whole legion complaining about you off site. I broke my silence, because you complained one too many times about regular, non-BFC people who provide content—for free—for your enjoyment.  You can complain about BFC all you want (they just ignore you, as I have all this time, until now) but you are way off base when you complain about the guys who make  content for our enjoyment. And while you’re at it, it wouldn’t hurt to thank people who try to help you with issues (check your comments; these incidents, too, are legion) instead of doubling down like you did with Sarge. 
 

Elvis, I’ll gladly take a ban...it was worth it to get this off my chest!

You guys are smoking it. This kind of behavior is downright embarrassing

Edited January 20, 2021 by Artkin

[Artkin]

On 1/18/2021 at 3:30 PM, Erwin said:

Also, am curious... how many of your designs have been released as finished?  I recall spending many, many hours testing your designs, but I can't recall ever receiving a 100% completed scenario or campaign from you.  Playing something that isn't another Beta would be awesome.  

 

3 hours ago, Erwin said:

We keep having this same set of complaints re "why don't YOU do x, y or z every few years.  It's puzzling.  It's like complaining "Why don't you do all your own car repairs?  Why don't you do all your own taxes? Why don't you do your own plumbing?  Why don't you do all your own house construction?  Well, perhaps YOU do all those things.  Congratulations.  Unfortunately, most folks on these forums don't have the time, inclination or talent to do such things ... or to make mods, maps or scenarios.  

It's disturbing that collecting a list of weird phenomena, oddities and bugs that many others have mentioned all over these forums upsets certain folks so much.  It was intended to be helpful to those who do care about the problems they encounter in CM2.  

You literally started it. You're losing it

 

Don't get me wrong, I find all of this hilarious. I laugh at everything I can in life and always stay positive. But come on guys, you know better. This isn't a middle school cafeteria

Edited January 20, 2021 by Artkin

[Sgt.Squarehead]

On 1/18/2021 at 8:30 PM, Erwin said:

Well, as the thread proves the basic bug is there...

No.

To reiterate:

As these images clearly demonstrate, your statement:

On 1/18/2021 at 3:45 PM, Erwin said:

7)  HQ's in CMSF2 cannot spot for arty or air.

Is patently incorrect. 

What you may have discovered is a specific issue with UK forces.....But that's not what you wrote, is it? 

[mjkerner]

Artkin is absolutely right, this is ridiculous and I admit my part was not cool.  This whole thing is petty, when you consider all that’s going on around the world. I will not apologize, but by way of explanation, one in my family received very bad medical news today. It did not help my disposition one bit.

Over and out.

[chuckdyke]

If you have an issue think about it and be objective. A, The Scenario B, who you played, C, Which Level D, The Issue E: Provide a Screenshot. If you think a game 'sucks' take it up with the editor. The person who never made a mistake never learned anything. Negative words are like bullets once you shoot you can't return them.

Edited January 20, 2021 by chuckdyke

[Erwin]

This is a list of items noted by other players on various forums as well as myself.  Note: Some of the items are only pertinent to modern titles and other items are relevant to all titles.

Re CMSF2 (so far):1)  Spotting issues.  A two man scout team with no binoculars can spot enemy units at close to 3,000 meters much better than an FO (with super dooper optics tech) or an HQ with binocs.  Folks have opined that it's because one of the riflemen has a "Thermal Imager" attached to his rifle and that is why they spot so well.  However, if that is accurately simulated in CM2 then why don't all RL units have thermal imagers and scrap the expensive and heavy laser designators and other high-tech optics that seem so inferior in the game?

2)  Related to item 1) Once can have a scout team, an FO, an HQ, a Jav team etc all in the same location, literally lying on top of each other.  The scout team sees an enemy units - but even after many minutes the other teams cannot see it - they do not communicate.  There is something wrong with the C2 system.  Again... apologists say that in RL they often cannot see what their buddy can see.  However, since the Thermal Imager is so much more effective, wouldn't they simply borrow the rifle with the Thermal Imager so they could see for themselves and then line up their super dooper optical gear on the target so they could finally see it?

3)  The M1046 TOW Humvee crew can dismount and take the TOW launcher and missile with them.  According to the UI it takes something like 1.7 minutes to deploy the TOW and a lot longer to pack up.  But it never seems to deploy. 

4)  Related to item 2) It is very very hard to use any vehicle mounted ATGM in CM2 as "hull-down" doesn't mean that only the vehicle optics on the roof are exposed.  Instead the top of the vehicle is exposed and can be easily seen and fired at and destroyed.  Without being able to dismount the TOW in this example, it's usually suicidal to attempt to fire the TOW even from a hull-down position.

5)  Same is true for the M707 Humvee and other "Arty Spotting vehicles" with Laser and other high tech on the roof.  All of these cannot be safely used in CM2 "hull-down" as they can be easily seen and destroyed.

6)  The M1114 AGL (Automatic Grenade Launcher) Humvee crew can dismount with the AGL.  However, it must be a spare from the trunk as an AGL remains mounted on the Humvee and can be crewed and operated by another crew or inf team.  Is it correct that the M1114 carries two AGL's?  (Note that the crew of the M1114 with the 50 cal can also dismount and operate it, but in this case the Humvee no longer has the 50 cal mounted.)

7)  British HQ's in CMSF2 cannot spot for arty or air.  Ref: p3

 Heavy arty falling on top of enemy troops often doesn't incapacitate them.  While it's true that shrapnel may miss, the shock wave of a large explosion alone is usually deadly as it can liquefy one's innards.

9)  Several vehicles (including the M1046 TOW Humvee) have quantities of regular ammo eg: 5.56mm etc.  But it seems impossible to acquire any of it.  The crew cannot acquire it, and if you dismount em and mount an inf team, they also cannot acquire any ammo.

10) LOS/LOF issues.  While CM2 is supposed to be WYSIWYG it often doesn't work that way.  One can get down to level one and eyeball a situation.  But, what one sees from a location often is not what a unit will see at that same location.  Eg: The AI can see pixel-wide gaps in what human examination considers completely blocked LOS.  A related issue is that one can eyeball a situation like a road in town and there is no obstruction down a street to target a building.  But one finds that when one places a unit in that location, it cannot see or shoot at the building.  

11) Another LOS/LOF issue.  Frequently we find that a crew served weapon can see and target an enemy only to discover that it's only the 3rd ammo loader who can see the enemy, not the main gun/gunner.  However, it is usually impossible to move the MG or gun a few inches to a position where it can see and fire the primary weapon at the enemy.  

12)  Finding Hulldown positions is often problematic.  Some folks seem to like the "Hulldown Assist routine" available in the game.  But, often it simply leave the vehicle with no LOS to the desired target and one has to waste another turn (in WEGO obviously) manually moving the waypoints to get a hull-down position.  So, one may as well do it manually from the start.  The additional problem is that in the scenario am playing right now it is common that vehicles go from having "No LOS' to "Partial Hull Down" with no "Hulldown" option being able to be located in between.  One can spend many minutes dicking around with moving waypoints the shortest possible distance in this, that or the other direction to find a hull-done position (relative to the desired target), but one can only find either "No LOS" or "Partial Hulldown" positions.  It's unclear if this is an issue with the map, (maybe the terrain is strange), or the LOS routine.

13) Some vehicles like Bradleys when targeted vs a building don't use the desired weapon - their cannon - but instead fire their missiles - which often makes no sense.  (Target Light makes em use their MG's.)

14) SMOKE and buildings...  Smoke acts as if there are no obstructions or walls and will drift through a building as it is made of wire.  This is actually very helpful when one is attempting to assault a multi-room building.  But, doesn't reflect RL.

15) When one orders a SMOKE artillery strike and run out of SMOKE, the battery obviously still has all its HE rounds.  However, if you first order HE, when all shells are gone the battery has no SMOKE rounds left - they seem to have been used up as HE.  In the game, if an arty piece has 140 HE rounds and 40 SMOKE it means that it has 140 rounds total, including 40 rounds SMOKE.  So, if one uses 140 rounds of HE there will be no SMOKE available. 

16) Some SNIPER teams in CMSF2 carry 50 cal rounds, even though they possess no weapon that can use 50 cal rounds.  

17) Park your vehicle directly behind a small tree and any enemy fire that comes from that direction will hit the apparently indestructible tree and the vehicle may be 100% unaffected.  Unless the enemy gun moves, it can exhaust all its ammo in this way.  AI controlled guns especially can be made useless by this trick.  

18) Attempting to resupply a squad one may split off a two-man team to mount a vehicle, get the ammo, then debark and run to where its squad is.  That takes two turns.  However, the teams may not recombine.  A turn later when one again moves both parts of the squad to the same spot, they may still not recombine.  To get the teams to recombine one has to split the larger squad team into two and then move all three teams to the same spot.  Only then will the teams recombine to the full squad and complete ammo resupply.  

19) Heavy HE barrage does not seem to damage vehicle/armor subsystems as much as expected.

20) Some vehicles carry ammo that seems to be available for resupply.  But, the crew cannot ACQUIRE any, and/or neither can any other unit mount the vehicle to ACQUIRE any.

Edited January 20, 2021 by Erwin

[Lethaface]

32 minutes ago, Erwin said:

7)  British HQ's in CMSF2 cannot spot for arty or air.  Ref: p3

 

7) Certain (not all as the screenshot of Sgt. Squarehead proves) British Infantry Plt HQs cannot call in indirect assets, specifically the ones shown in the screenshot of UK campaign.

This is also what seems to have been reported to BFC. Have to say that I agree with the Sgt. that there's a big difference compared to 'no HQ in CMSF can call in indirect' vs the issue that was actually found. 

A list of known/confirmed issues isn't a bad thing imo, so users in the forum can more easily find if something they noticed is already known. But than it helps if the list is accurate (understatement; I actually mean that the list is only useful if it's accurate). TBH some of the issues mentioned here are so vague that I don't think it will even help people to consider whether what they noticed is the same or even an issue at all. 
So perhaps you can improve the quality of your list by making the reports more accurate and indicating whether the issue has been confirmed and reported, or not. Vague issues like 'something might be in some situation' shouldn't be in the list as it just clouds up stuff.

 

Edited January 20, 2021 by Lethaface

[Sgt.Squarehead]

2 hours ago, Erwin said:

17) Park your vehicle directly behind a small tree and any enemy fire that comes from that direction will hit the apparently indestructible tree and the vehicle may be 100% unaffected.  Unless the enemy gun moves, it can exhaust all its ammo in this way.  AI controlled guns especially can be made useless by this trick.

I've never seen pecisely this either TBH.....I've seen trees interfere with direct fire quite dramatically, paticularly auto-cannons laying waste to friendly units by hitting nearby tree-trunks with HE.  But the tree always seems to go away after a shell or two has hit it (although I've never checked the map to see if it actually does).

Moving on, your Point 9:

2 hours ago, Erwin said:

9)  Several vehicles (including the M1046 TOW Humvee) have quantities of regular ammo eg: 5.56mm etc.  But it seems impossible to acquire any of it.  The crew cannot acquire it, and if you dismount em and mount an inf team, they also cannot acquire any ammo.

  Appears to be a specific case of Point 20:

2 hours ago, Erwin said:

20) Some vehicles carry ammo that seems to be available for resupply.  But, the crew cannot ACQUIRE any, and/or neither can any other unit mount the vehicle to ACQUIRE any.

  So that's another one off the list.

 

Edited January 20, 2021 by Sgt.Squarehead

[Erwin]

3 hours ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

I've never seen pecisely this either TBH.....I've seen trees interfere with direct fire quite dramatically, paticularly auto-cannons laying waste to friendly units by hitting nearby tree-trunks with HE.  But the tree always seems to go away after a shell or two has hit it (although I've never checked the map to see if it actually does).

This issue is very apparent in "AD A Bradley Speedbump" (CMBS)  The p[layer is a Red attacker trying to get past a US blocking force that has a Bradley.  The Bradley is cleverly positioned right behind a tree.  If one chooses a particular attack route, the initial Red vehicles can use up all of their ammo firing at the Bradley.  All shots hit the tree which never seemed to get damaged.  The Bradley remained completely undamaged.  

Yes, one can attack from another direction.  But, if one chose this particular route, one experiences the weird phenomenon of the apparently indestructible tree.  Also, the fact that the AI is unable to figure out that it needs to shoot a few cm to either side.

[Erwin]

4 hours ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

6 hours ago, Erwin said:

20) Some vehicles carry ammo that seems to be available for resupply.  But, the crew cannot ACQUIRE any, and/or neither can any other unit mount the vehicle to ACQUIRE any.

  So that's another one off the list.

Fair enuff...  Sometimes folks report items and I forget they have already been listed.

Edited January 20, 2021 by Erwin

[Erwin]

This is a list of items noted by other players on various forums as well as myself.  Note: Some of the items are only pertinent to modern titles and other items are relevant to all titles.  

A major reason that I compiled this list from my own as well as other players' experiences is that every few months these forums welcome a new set of players - and every batch of new players invariably encounter the same frustrating issues and then post the same questions on the forums over and over (and over) again.  "Why doesn't his work?  "What am I doing wrong?" etc etc.  So this was intended to help explain that the CM2 system features many "oddities and eccentricities" as well as some actual longstanding bugs.

Re CMSF2 (so far):1)  Spotting issues.  A two man scout team with no binoculars can spot enemy units at close to 3,000 meters much better than an FO (with super dooper optics tech) or an HQ with binocs.  Folks have opined that it's because one of the riflemen has a "Thermal Imager" attached to his rifle and that is why they spot so well.  However, if that is accurately simulated in CM2 then why don't all RL units have thermal imagers and scrap the expensive and heavy laser designators and other high-tech optics that seem so inferior in the game?

2)  Related to item 1) Once can have a scout team, an FO, an HQ, a Jav team etc all in the same location, literally lying on top of each other.  The scout team sees an enemy units - but even after many minutes the other teams cannot see it - they do not communicate.  There is something wrong with the C2 system.  Again... apologists say that in RL they often cannot see what their buddy can see.  However, since the Thermal Imager is so much more effective, wouldn't they simply borrow the rifle with the Thermal Imager so they could see for themselves and then line up their super dooper optical gear on the target so they could finally see it?

3)  The M1046 TOW Humvee crew can dismount and take the TOW launcher and missile with them.  According to the UI it takes something like 1.7 minutes to deploy the TOW and a lot longer to pack up.  But it never seems to deploy. 

4)  Related to item 2) It is very very hard to use any vehicle mounted ATGM in CM2 as "hull-down" doesn't mean that only the vehicle optics on the roof are exposed.  Instead the top of the vehicle is exposed and can be easily seen and fired at and destroyed.  Without being able to dismount the TOW in this example, it's usually suicidal to attempt to fire the TOW even from a hull-down position.

5)  Same is true for the M707 Humvee and other "Arty Spotting vehicles" with Laser and other high tech on the roof.  All of these cannot be safely used in CM2 "hull-down" as they can be easily seen and destroyed.

6)  The M1114 AGL (Automatic Grenade Launcher) Humvee crew can dismount with the AGL.  However, it must be a spare from the trunk as an AGL remains mounted on the Humvee and can be crewed and operated by another crew or inf team.  Is it correct that the M1114 carries two AGL's?  (Note that the crew of the M1114 with the 50 cal can also dismount and operate it, but in this case the Humvee no longer has the 50 cal mounted.)

7)  British HQ's in CMSF2 cannot spot for arty or air.  Ref: p3

 Heavy arty falling on top of enemy troops often doesn't incapacitate them.  While it's true that shrapnel may miss, the shock wave of a large explosion alone is usually deadly as it can liquefy one's innards.

9)  Several vehicles (including the M1046 TOW Humvee) have quantities of regular ammo eg: 5.56mm etc.  But it seems impossible to acquire any of it.  The crew cannot acquire it, and if you dismount em and mount an inf team, they also cannot acquire any ammo.

10) LOS/LOF issues.  While CM2 is supposed to be WYSIWYG it often doesn't work that way.  One can get down to level one and eyeball a situation.  But, what one sees from a location often is not what a unit will see at that same location.  Eg: The AI can see pixel-wide gaps in what human examination considers completely blocked LOS.  A related issue is that one can eyeball a situation like a road in town and there is no obstruction down a street to target a building.  But one finds that when one places a unit in that location, it cannot see or shoot at the building.  

11) Another LOS/LOF issue.  Frequently we find that a crew served weapon can see and target an enemy only to discover that it's only the 3rd ammo loader who can see the enemy, not the main gun/gunner.  However, it is usually impossible to move the MG or gun a few inches to a position where it can see and fire the primary weapon at the enemy.  

12)  Finding Hulldown positions is often problematic.  Some folks seem to like the "Hulldown Assist routine" available in the game.  But, often it simply leave the vehicle with no LOS to the desired target and one has to waste another turn (in WEGO obviously) manually moving the waypoints to get a hull-down position.  So, one may as well do it manually from the start.  The additional problem is that in the scenario am playing right now it is common that vehicles go from having "No LOS' to "Partial Hull Down" with no "Hulldown" option being able to be located in between.  One can spend many minutes dicking around with moving waypoints the shortest possible distance in this, that or the other direction to find a hull-done position (relative to the desired target), but one can only find either "No LOS" or "Partial Hulldown" positions.  It's unclear if this is an issue with the map, (maybe the terrain is strange), or the LOS routine.

13) Some vehicles like Bradleys when targeted vs a building don't use the desired weapon - their cannon - but instead fire their missiles - which often makes no sense.  (Target Light makes em use their MG's.)

14) SMOKE and buildings...  Smoke acts as if there are no obstructions or walls and will drift through a building as it is made of wire.  This is actually very helpful when one is attempting to assault a multi-room building.  But, doesn't reflect RL.

15) When one orders a SMOKE artillery strike and run out of SMOKE, the battery obviously still has all its HE rounds.  However, if you first order HE, when all shells are gone the battery has no SMOKE rounds left - they seem to have been used up as HE.  In the game, if an arty piece has 140 HE rounds and 40 SMOKE it means that it has 140 rounds total, including 40 rounds SMOKE.  So, if one uses 140 rounds of HE there will be no SMOKE available. 

16) Some SNIPER teams in CMSF2 carry 50 cal rounds, even though they possess no weapon that can use 50 cal rounds.  

17) Park your vehicle directly behind a small tree and any enemy fire that comes from that direction will hit the apparently indestructible tree and the vehicle may be 100% unaffected.  Unless the enemy gun moves, it can exhaust all its ammo in this way.  AI controlled guns especially can be made useless by this trick.  

18) Attempting to resupply a squad one may split off a two-man team to mount a vehicle, get the ammo, then debark and run to where its squad is.  That takes two turns.  However, the teams may not recombine.  A turn later when one again moves both parts of the squad to the same spot, they may still not recombine.  To get the teams to recombine one has to split the larger squad team into two and then move all three teams to the same spot.  Only then will the teams recombine to the full squad and complete ammo resupply.  

19) Heavy HE barrage does not seem to damage vehicle/armor subsystems as much as expected.

20) 

 

 

Edited January 20, 2021 by Erwin