Price differences for CM games for UK and EU customers

[fireship4]

I know what Elvis said, I am saying that nothing relevant has changed, VAT was always applicable, charging it now (if that is what they are doing) is not the fulfllment of a new law.  You can further the discussion by disproving this, as his assertion is not UK tax law, nor did he in fact mention VAT, it is simply presumed by the percentage increase.  After all that I've had to repeat myself and waste a fourpence.

 

[Vacillator]

30 minutes ago, fireship4 said:

After all that I've had to repeat myself and waste a fourpence.

Perhaps then we should all refrain from further comment?  It's not like this conversation is going to change anything, as I believe has already been said.  And please keep your fourpence, you might need it .

[Warts 'n' all]

"Elizabeth, get your glad rags on girl, we've got two groats, so we're off down The Red Lion."

[Vacillator]

7 minutes ago, Warts 'n' all said:

so we're off down The Red Lion

How I wish I was off down the Red Lion.  Not with Elizabeth of course, that would be wrong.

[Lucky_Strike]

58 minutes ago, Vacilllator said:

Perhaps then we should all refrain from further comment?  It's not like this conversation is going to change anything, as I believe has already been said.  And please keep your fourpence, you might need it .

Yes, have had enough of arguing this particular toss, all I know is that I'm going to be paying more for a game where I didn't before (and have already paid more for many other things, and will no doubt for many more), and it started with us leaving the EU. Call it what you want, VAT, tariffs, tax, admin fees, Tory biscuit money, but coincidence it is not.

[Lucky_Strike]

30 minutes ago, Warts 'n' all said:

"Elizabeth, get your glad rags on girl, we've got two groats, so we're off down The Red Lion."

have one on me!

[Vacillator]

35 minutes ago, Lucky_Strike said:

Yes, have had enough of arguing this particular toss, all I know is that I'm going to be paying more for a game where I didn't before (and have already paid more for many other things, and will no doubt for many more), and it started with us leaving the EU. Call it what you want, VAT, tariffs, tax, admin fees, Tory biscuit money, but coincidence it is not.

I can like this only once... Your comment I mean.  I'm off to the Ardennes...

Edited January 22, 2021 by Vacilllator
Can't type

[Lucky_Strike]

17 minutes ago, Vacilllator said:

I can like this only once... Your comment I mean.  I'm off to the Ardennes...

Enjoy, as for me I’m having a nice home-cooked chip supper! No groats necessary, though some ale might be involved!

[fireship4]

That's my coin you skelpie!

[Warts 'n' all]

1 hour ago, Lucky_Strike said:

have one on me!

Thank you, kindly.

[The Steppenwulf]

4 hours ago, fireship4 said:

Enforcing VAT only on domestic products when it applies to all would be opposite of protectionist, and remedying that should not be cast as protectionist.  However, no changes that would apply to the digital sale of the game have in fact been made.  Any changes to import of the game physically are changed to the point at which VAT is charged, and would only affect someone who was evading tax in the first instance.

Why does the UK need to 'remedy enforcing VAT on domestic products'? That is not the case!

But anyway... from the linked article:
A government spokesperson said: "The new VAT model ensures goods from EU and non-EU countries are treated in the same way and that UK businesses are not disadvantaged by competition from VAT-free imports.

The net effect of the new VAT model is that the UK consumer will be discouraged from making purchases outside the UK. Do you agree?

The word protectionism is not so narrowly defined as merely imposition of a tariff or charge levied at imported goods, it can take many different forms including simple policy decisions - anything in fact that serves to restrict imports. Do you agree (because it's not apparent this is your understanding from your statement at all.)

Regardless, on this basis the new VAT model serves that end and is clearly intended as such. Therefore to describe the action as a 'protectionist' move is not misplaced or a misunderstanding given the context and present circumstances (as pointed out by another member). 

Edited January 22, 2021 by The Steppenwulf

[Lucky_Strike]

2 hours ago, fireship4 said:

That's my coin you skelpie!

Though it seems somehow improved, larger ... can’t quite put my finger on it 

[fireship4]

4 hours ago, The Steppenwulf said:

Why does the UK need to 'remedy enforcing VAT on domestic products'? That is not the case!

You misread my post or I wasn't clear enough: in a situation where VAT is paid on domestic purchases, and is due yet regularly unpaid on imports, enforcing the current law should not be cast as "protectionism", as it is a correction toward neutral from entirely the opposite.

 

4 hours ago, The Steppenwulf said:

The net effect of the new VAT model is that the UK consumer will be discouraged from making purchases outside the UK. Do you agree?

What new VAT model?  VAT is 20% and is due just the same as before.  LVCR is no longer in effect, and the EU will be doing the same in July. 

 

4 hours ago, The Steppenwulf said:

The word protectionism is not so narrowly defined as merely imposition of a tariff or charge levied at imported goods, it can take many different forms including simple policy decisions - anything in fact that serves to restrict imports. Do you agree

Protectionism is a pejorative carrying it's own ideological baggage.  I agree somewhat in that it can be used correctly to describe a broad range of policies, but not that such policies are limited to those that restrict imports.

I am however not up to a discussion on the definition protectionism at the moment further than saying it was misused in this case, for the reasons I stated above.

Edited January 23, 2021 by fireship4

[Warts 'n' all]

An interesting trip to The Red Lion. Their Derby Gate XXXX Ale was top notch. But the evening was marred when Elizabeth started on gin chasers and got a bit tetchy. Seeing some "Ladies of the night" enter, she shouted "Keeps your mits off my Ollie, you sl**s". then pulled the Division Bell off of the wall and hurled it at them. Of course she missed, it broke a window and hit a passing constable.

I'm off to Horseferry Road to bail her out, anyone got a tanner?

[Lucky_Strike]

9 hours ago, Warts 'n' all said:

An interesting trip to The Red Lion. Their Derby Gate XXXX Ale was top notch. But the evening was marred when Elizabeth started on gin chasers and got a bit tetchy. Seeing some "Ladies of the night" enter, she shouted "Keeps your mits off my Ollie, you sl**s". then pulled the Division Bell off of the wall and hurled it at them. Of course she missed, it broke a window and hit a passing constable.

Ahh, a drop of the old mother’s ruin ...

9 hours ago, Warts 'n' all said:

I'm off to Horseferry Road to bail her out, anyone got a tanner?

Will this do?

[Warts 'n' all]

42 minutes ago, Lucky_Strike said:

Ahh, a drop of the old mother’s ruin ...

Will this do?

Hahahaha. Brilliant, trust me to have run out of "Likes", you certainly deserve one.

[Vacillator]

2 minutes ago, Warts 'n' all said:

Hahahaha. Brilliant, trust me to have run out of "Likes", you certainly deserve one.

Okay, I had to give Lucky_Strike one for you as well (ooh err missus, part 2).

[Lucky_Strike]

6 hours ago, Warts 'n' all said:

Hahahaha. Brilliant, trust me to have run out of "Likes", you certainly deserve one.

It’s the thought that counts ...

[Lucky_Strike]

6 hours ago, Vacilllator said:

Okay, I had to give Lucky_Strike one for you as well (ooh err missus, part 2).

Careful, you might summon the ghost of Sgt Howerd, s’what happens if you say it three times in row.

[Vacillator]

Just now, Lucky_Strike said:

Careful, you might summon the ghost of Sgt Howerd, s’what happens if you say it three times in row.

That wouldn't be such a bad thing .

[Lethaface]

On 1/22/2021 at 8:36 PM, fireship4 said:

I know what Elvis said, I am saying that nothing relevant has changed, VAT was always applicable, charging it now (if that is what they are doing) is not the fulfllment of a new law.  You can further the discussion by disproving this, as his assertion is not UK tax law, nor did he in fact mention VAT, it is simply presumed by the percentage increase.  After all that I've had to repeat myself and waste a fourpence.

 

Today in the Dutch newspaper there was an article about exactly the same issues: Dutch webshops selling to UK customers now also having to charge UK VAT on behalf of the UK 'Tax Service' (or however its called there). For that they need a UK VAT number, which can take a while as there are delays in the processing. 

For purchases above 135 Pounds the customer will have to pay the VAT and tariffs at the door upon delivery.
Before VAT was charged in the memberstate of the consumer, so IMO this is a consequence of the news laws but me too don't have much desire to discuss the technicalities of the thing. 

A link: 

https://nos.nl/artikel/2365856-brexitregels-lastig-voor-webshops-naar-china-verzenden-is-makkelijker.html

[Warts 'n' all]

33 minutes ago, Lethaface said:

 'Tax Service' (or however its called there).

It's known as Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs, but your phrase is close enough for us to understand.

Meanwhile on a lighter note Frank the W*** has been sacked as manager of South-West London Wide Boys F.C.

[Holien]

3 hours ago, Lethaface said:

Today in the Dutch newspaper there was an article about exactly the same issues: Dutch webshops selling to UK customers now also having to charge UK VAT on behalf of the UK 'Tax Service' (or however its called there). For that they need a UK VAT number, which can take a while as there are delays in the processing. 

For purchases above 135 Pounds the customer will have to pay the VAT and tariffs at the door upon delivery.
Before VAT was charged in the memberstate of the consumer, so IMO this is a consequence of the news laws but me too don't have much desire to discuss the technicalities of the thing. 

A link: 

https://nos.nl/artikel/2365856-brexitregels-lastig-voor-webshops-naar-china-verzenden-is-makkelijker.html

Thanks that makes sense. 

As the fulfillment centre was in Ireland the UK customers paid what was due in Ireland. 

Now because of Brexit the UK want the VAT tax money paid to them as we are no longer governed by EU rules.

The Brexit deal is perhaps the first ever trade treaty to impose friction rather than remove barriers to trade.

I am thankful we did get some sort of a deal done, as we would have seen some serious "teething" issues.

BTW UK companies are being told to create European operations to smooth "teething" problems and try and overcome the new frictions.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55786974

Always winners and lossers from any change. I wonder if European traders will be setting up shop in the UK or just not bother?

The bottom line is GDP equates to taxes and money the Govt can spend on schools or say the NHS.

More friction between our biggest trading partner is not good for our GDP.

Maybe America will save us?

P.s I had to do some double checks, and I am glad Frosthaven is coming from a UK distribution centre and I  should no get any unexpected charges...

 

[fireship4]

15 hours ago, Lethaface said:

Today in the Dutch newspaper there was an article about exactly the same issues: Dutch webshops selling to UK customers now also having to charge UK VAT on behalf of the UK 'Tax Service' (or however its called there). For that they need a UK VAT number, which can take a while as there are delays in the processing. 

For purchases above 135 Pounds the customer will have to pay the VAT and tariffs at the door upon delivery.
Before VAT was charged in the memberstate of the consumer, so IMO this is a consequence of the news laws but me too don't have much desire to discuss the technicalities of the thing. 

 

11 hours ago, Holien said:

Thanks that makes sense. 

As the fulfillment centre was in Ireland the UK customers paid what was due in Ireland. 

Now because of Brexit the UK want the VAT tax money paid to them as we are no longer governed by EU rules.

The Brexit deal is perhaps the first ever trade treaty to impose friction rather than remove barriers to trade.

I am thankful we did get some sort of a deal done, as we would have seen some serious "teething" issues.

BTW UK companies are being told to create European operations to smooth "teething" problems and try and overcome the new frictions.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55786974

Always winners and lossers from any change. I wonder if European traders will be setting up shop in the UK or just not bother?

The bottom line is GDP equates to taxes and money the Govt can spend on schools or say the NHS.

More friction between our biggest trading partner is not good for our GDP.

Maybe America will save us?

P.s I had to do some double checks, and I am glad Frosthaven is coming from a UK distribution centre and I  should no get any unexpected charges...

For sales to individuals between member states of the EU, the distance selling system means that below an annual figure of approximately €100,000 (or €35,000 in some instances), VAT is charged to customers at the point of sale and kept by the exporting country (if I understand correctly).  This would seemingly mean it is in the interest of the exporting country to make sure the tax is collected (since they keep it) and likely increases collection, and would perhaps therefore even out between states that trade with each other.  Above that value, you would have to register with the importing country, charge VAT at their local rate, and pay the collected tax to them.  For digital goods the limit is €10,000 and is EU wide, not per country.

If the fulfilment centre (where the physical goods are when they were sold) is in Ireland and you buy from within the EU, Ireland's VAT rate of 21% applies and is collectable and kept by the republic until yearly sales to EU countries hits €100,000 (actually £70,000 I think, the conversion rate at the time the rule was made).  After that point you pay the importing country the tax instead, collected at their rate (the UK's is 20%).

Since January 1st, distance selling no longer applies to the UK, VAT is payable to HMRC at the point of sale, on all sales if digital (someone correct me if I'm wrong), and below £135 consignment value for non-exempt physical goods.  Above that VAT is now no longer charged at the point of sale and is charged when the goods enter the country, payable at your door I think in cases where the courier has taken care of it at the border.  The £135 figure matches the rate at which customs duty is charged (2.5%).

[Warts 'n' all]

Oh, another Groat in the Ale fund.