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Troop Facade British ammo exchange -- How the...?


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I have tried every which way to make this work. Plenty of ammo 303 Mk VII but all in the wrong hands! Stuff them all together and they still will not share. Is this a bug or some deep secret that nobody wants to share like the troops themselves? Works at the start line -- albeit bits and drabs (50 shells at a time) --- but get them in those buildings and nothing happens. I have no interest in playing a scenario where I make my gunner run around with only a hand gun.

Any help appreciated. Great to be back 20 years on...

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I am not sure how you are trying to make them share?
Troops from the same squad/platoon will share ammo when they are adjacent. IE: If a team is out of .303 rounds, it can expend the .303 rounds of a fellow team/squad if they are nearby. But they cant take the rounds with them if they go their separate ways.

But you can pick up ammo from the jeeps by getting a team into a jeep and pressing the "acqiure" button. If the team is too large to get into the jeep, split off a scout  team, get it into the jeep, acquire and then let the scout team rejoin the squad. Then the ammo will be shared out among the entire squad.

Edited by umlaut
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And there's the rub. In Troop Facade it is British combos that I haven't seen until this scenario. A platoon consists of one 303 gunner and 2 sten with a (separate) 3 man mortar carrying nine rounds. No squads breakdown possible. Dismount the jeep and they can drive but the ammo stays with the driver! Share the same space with the driver results in zip. Some of the teams come with only 150 303 rounds and the fight is withl brick buildings and stone bridges.

The 12 pounder can carry 600 lbs. 303 rounds (!) but can they share them? Not anyway I can figure.

 

Thanks for replying!

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You have to use the "Acquire" command from the Special orders section. If in doubt check the manual.

Remember that during the Set-up phase all movement within the Set-up zone is free. You can swap units in and out of the Jeeps as often as you like, and even move the ATgun crew out so that other troops can "Acquire" the small arms ammo from their Jeep, and then remount the AT gun.

In a scenario like this where so many of your men are carrying Stens I would take all the 9mm ammo I could get before starting the battle.

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What Warts said.

BTW, I have a question regarding the recce teams: When I load Facade Troop all the recce teams are armed with two stenguns and one 51 mm mortar. Is that correct? I dont think I have played with the para recce troops before, so I am not sure what they are supposed to carry. I suspect that they might be supposed to carry Bren guns instead of mortars - and I have a faulty install (my game is engine 4, v 4.03 - all modules and packs installed)?

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@umlaut You're spot on, they do all carry the 2incher, rather than a Bren. And given the fact that it deploys automatically you can't "undeploy" it via the UI. From what I can tell the guy with the mortar will only begin using his Sten once all the HE rounds have been used up, unless the target is inside the mortar's minimum range of 20meters. 

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7 hours ago, Warts 'n' all said:

You have to use the "Acquire" command from the Special orders section. If in doubt check the manual.

Remember that during the Set-up phase all movement within the Set-up zone is free. You can swap units in and out of the Jeeps as often as you like, and even move the ATgun crew out so that other troops can "Acquire" the small arms ammo from their Jeep, and then remount the AT gun.

In a scenario like this where so many of your men are carrying Stens I would take all the 9mm ammo I could get before starting the battle.

Still no good. I knew of the acquire button, it just won't activate. The AT jeep is one man so you can move a 3 man crew into it but still the acquire button will not activate even tho the jeep is stocked. All this begs the question in the first place of why such a laborious method- that is switching multiple groups in and out of a jeep (which doesn't work in my case)-- for acquiring ammo at the beginning of a game anyways?

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34 minutes ago, KGBoy said:

Still no good. I knew of the acquire button, it just won't activate. The AT jeep is one man so you can move a 3 man crew into it but still the acquire button will not activate even tho the jeep is stocked.

This is strange. I have just tried myself - without any problems at all: Every unit I place in any jeep is able to acquire ammo from that jeep. I guess something is wrong with your game.

34 minutes ago, KGBoy said:

All this begs the question in the first place of why such a laborious method- that is switching multiple groups in and out of a jeep (which doesn't work in my case)-- for acquiring ammo at the beginning of a game anyways?

It is a bit laborious indeed. My guess is, that it works this way because when you have to place a unit inside a jeep to acquire, then you are completely sure where you are acquiring the ammo from. If you only had to place them next to each other, then you might accidentally acquire ammo from the wrong adjacent unit. But that is just my guess.

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@KGBoy Given the fact that you made no mention of the "Acquire" command in your OP it wasn't easy to know how far your knowledge of the game stretched. And you didn't help your case by later referring to the British 6pdr as a "12pounder".

Getting extra ammo can be a bit tedious that is why I tend do it during the Set-up Phase when the enemy aren't shooting at my men or my supply vehicles.

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4 minutes ago, Warts 'n' all said:

@KGBoy Given the fact that you made no mention of the "Acquire" command in your OP it wasn't easy to know how far your knowledge of the game stretched. And you didn't help your case by later referring to the British 6pdr as a "12pounder".

Getting extra ammo can be a bit tedious that is why I tend do it during the Set-up Phase when the enemy aren't shooting at my men or my supply vehicles.

Yes. Quite right. Apologies. Regardless, in set-up,  I can acquire ammo for the jeeps -- I just can't give it to the squads even while sitting in the jeep. Perhaps a reinstall will fix this...?

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@KGBoy No, you won't need to re-install. You obviously didn't practice acquiring ammo from the trucks in the "Devon - Basic Training" campaign.

Your Jeep drivers do not "give" ammo to their passengers, they can only take it for themselves. Click on the unit that you have put into the Jeep and then click on "Acquire", and take the ammo, then dismount them. Their ammo count will have gone up, and the spare ammo count in the Jeep will have gone down. Hope this works.

Edited by Warts 'n' all
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Frustrating I know but.. that does not work. Did a reinstall to no effect. I can get ammo in Devon I just can't do it in Facade Troops.

 

At first I thought because the 3 man gun platoon can't get in the 2 crew jeep but the then realized the AT Jeep is 1 man which the 3 man gun platoon can get in but still no light to the acquire button.

Edited by KGBoy
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43 minutes ago, KGBoy said:

Thanks for your patience on this umlaut. I will try a reinstall. Just for my FYI did you try it for Facade Troop particularly?

No worries. Yes, I tried it for Facade Troop in the setup phase. And as I said, I was able to acquire no matter which unit I put in which jeep.

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Success!!! Sequence is important. Put the squad in BEFORE the jeep acquires the ammo. I was having the jeep acquire the ammo then putting the squad in -- in that case you cannot get ammo for the squad from the jeep. 

 

Sorry and thanks to you both.

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5 hours ago, KGBoy said:

The AT jeep is one man so you can move a 3 man crew into it but still the acquire button will not activate even tho the jeep is stocked. All this begs the question in the first place of why such a laborious method- that is switching multiple groups in and out of a jeep (which doesn't work in my case)-- for acquiring ammo at the beginning of a game anyways?

Be aware that in the CM2 game family there are several vehicles that appear to carry spare ammo that can be acquired by passengers, but in fact cannot be acquired by the crew or any passengers that replace the crew (and some spare ammo-carrying vehicles cannot even be mounted by anyone other than the original crew).  These bugs have been around since the beginning of CM2.

As to the 2nd point, yes this is a completely time-wasting and laborious method for acquiring ammo (acquiring ammo in the most efficient manner becomes almost a game in itself) and some of us have long complained that this needs to be addressed. 

Ideally, adjacent units should be able to acquire or swap ammo and weapons (within reasonable limits and possibly with a time penalty - like what happens when one sets up a crew weapon).  However, a more sensible ammo and weapon acquiring system seems unlikely to be looked at (at least until CM3 - and who will be left alive to see that lol?).  

 

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@umlaut Picking up on your earlier post about the Recce Team having the 2inch Mortar, I also noticed that when the bloke with the Mortar switches to his smg, he is carrying the standard infantry version of the Sten whilst his two mates have the Airborne variant. That seems a bit odd to me. But, it doesn't really break the immersion.

I don't normally play fictional scenarios. But I gave this a whirl a few years back when someone brought out a Kriegsmarine Uniform mod which I think looks great. 

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Just a final follow up. Reinforcements come in with 4 jeeps.  So, in order to get ammo: 1 minute to dismount jeep - 1 minute for 3 man platoon to embark -- 1 minute to acquire and dismount -- 1 minute for drivers to remount. Finally in the next minute you drive away. To catch up to the running teams I had the platoon drive the jeep to destination but you cannot dismount till the minute after arrival (which amounts to the same amount of time as the former). 5 minutes to get to orders!

 

Thanks all. Great community!

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On 12/29/2020 at 12:21 PM, KGBoy said:

Success!!! Sequence is important. Put the squad in the Jeep BEFORE having the squad acquire the ammo. I was having the jeep acquire the ammo then putting the squad in -- in that case you cannot get ammo for the squad from the jeep.

I came too late to help - glad you got it sorted. To be clear the squad is the one that should execute the acquire command to get the ammo - fixed in bold above.

Note (you know this now but just in case others reading this missed it): if you select the vehicle and use the acquire command the vehicle crew is the one that will get the ammo. You really really don't want to do that the vast majority of the time. But from time to time getting a driver to pick up some AT weapon and dismount is useful.

Also units from the same platoon will share ammo automatically if they are close by. This does not happen in a way you can control and it happens a magazine at a time. For example if you have a squad that has run out and you bring them close to a unit in their peer group the guys with no ammo will pick up a magazine each and be able to fire. But if the move away they will no longer be able to get more when they empty their magazines.

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On 12/30/2020 at 11:37 AM, KGBoy said:

Just a final follow up. Reinforcements come in with 4 jeeps.  So, in order to get ammo: 1 minute to dismount jeep - 1 minute for 3 man platoon to embark -- 1 minute to acquire and dismount -- 1 minute for drivers to remount. Finally in the next minute you drive away. To catch up to the running teams I had the platoon drive the jeep to destination but you cannot dismount till the minute after arrival (which amounts to the same amount of time as the former). 5 minutes to get to orders!

Yep, in game terms it is a lot of micro managing. But 5 minutes to load up ammo is not really a lot. IRL it would take that long or longer probably. Our instant acquire command is a little optimistic. I agree that the long drawn out process above is no idea either just pointing out you gain one way and loose another. It would be nice if you could acquire near a vehicle or in it and there would be a minute to several minute time cost depending on how much ammo you are messing with. Maybe one day.

One more note on this. I used to spend a lot of time messing with ammo now I really just make sure the infantry AT assets are distributed and perhaps give a little more to the MG teams. After that don't worry about it. Most rifle men don't run out by the time the game is over. On the rare occasions that they do - then acquire more. That saves a tone of fiddling around.

 

On 12/30/2020 at 11:37 AM, KGBoy said:

Thanks all. Great community!

Indeed it is.

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