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I'm sure we've seen this. I found it fascinating


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6 hours ago, umlaut said:

Nice video. Like  Warts I dont  find it really surprising, but it is great to get a more detailed description of bocage.

This inspired me to do a  bit  of experimenting in the editor to see if  it would be  possible to create the different kinds of sunken roads/paths in the game. Unfortunately, I  think we would need something in between the current options to get it just right. The current options seem to be a bit too much or too little: If you place a footpath between two rows of bocage ("Wide bocage" video),  then I think the "road" becomes a bit too wide. 
But  if you place the two  rows of bocage right next to each other ("narrow bocage" video), it is not possible to create a sunken road/path between them.

I use the great bocage and plant mods of @Lucky_Strike  and @Falaise.

Yes, the OP’s video is a good introduction to the bocage, I believe someone posted a link to it earlier this year, but it certainly bears watching again, demonstrating some very valid points and helping those unfamiliar with such countryside to better understand it. Would certainly have served the Allies well in ‘44. There are a lot of Allied reports and appraisals of the fighting in the bocage which were written after the event, many of which do point to a lack of preparedness and awareness about the nature of the bocage country. Here are a couple of interesting short reads which quote some such reports:

https://www.bradford-delong.com/2014/06/liveblogging-world-war-ii-june-19-1944-the-bocage.html

http://www.lonesentry.com/normandy_lessons/index.html

Great videos @umlaut - I spent quite a bit of time trying to recreate various types of sunken track and lanes. Have to agree that there is a lack of tile for the narrowest type, sadly it’s not really possible to recreate it accurately with existing textures. I don’t think there’s a way to mod something either as it would probably require delving deep into the 3D models and mechanics of the game.

 

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2 hours ago, John1966 said:

I don't usually use mods but that looks great.

Unabashed self-promo

Available here:

and on the CM mod warehouse IV:

https://www.thefewgoodmen.com/cm-mod-warehouse/combat-mission-battle-for-normandy/cmbn-other/cmbn-lucky_strikes-hedgerow-hell-or-how-not-to-be-seen/

 

Edited by Lucky_Strike
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On 12/28/2020 at 2:42 PM, umlaut said:

I use the great bocage and plant mods of @Lucky_Strike  and @Falaise.

First of all I want specified that the mod is from Lucky Strike, I am only like his muse 🤣
I did some sunken path test
with parallel hedges in diagonal we obtain a conclusive effect

210105030540283934.jpg
on the other hand the vehicles cannot use them
with the hedges parallel horizontal or vertical by alternating the heights we obtain a good  effect and  the vehicles passe

210105030543152131.jpg
by mixing the two we can obtain a convincing maze of hedges

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Truly beautiful work.  B)

You could mix in a few light & heavy forest tiles for extra foliage/overgrown areas and in the latter instance also to further restrict vehicle movement (Rhinos can't bust everything).  ;)

Once these mods are finalised (and I've finished playing with funny shaped islands) I reckon I'm going to have a long sit down with them.

Edited by Sgt.Squarehead
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12 hours ago, Falaise said:

I am only like his muse 🤣

Haha. You certainly a-muse 😂

Excellent work. 👍 Especially love the first narrow path, it reminds me of the very narrow paths between hedgerows that I’ve seen in so many period photos:

sNJkeg7.jpg


0sqaBlW.jpg

Some still exist - tunnel vision ...

z80SjXn.jpg

3 hours ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

You could mix in a few light & heavy forest tiles for extra foliage/overgrown areas

Visually these are also good under bocage because they represent smaller areas than the normal grass tiles so are less stretched and smeared, they can make very convincing dirt banks.

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5 hours ago, Vacilllator said:

How dare you sir, I have only two moobs 😉.

 

5 hours ago, Falaise said:

I had to look for what moobs is :huh:
that's good I don't have !!!:P

 

4 hours ago, Vacilllator said:

No, of course me neither, I was only joking.  Walking the Spaniels (one a Breton ❤️) every day probably helps...

Modding builds moobs, it’s a posture thing; and of course a few should read as a couple of moobs.

I do like that we may have introduced a new word to our Gaelic friends and neighbours 😉

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On 1/5/2021 at 3:01 PM, Falaise said:

First of all I want specified that the mod is from Lucky Strike, I am only like his muse 🤣
 

 

I mentioned you, because I also use your great "Biodiversity" mods

Your bocage pics look wonderful. I had considered making my own versions diagonal myself, but I chose not to because in my experience LOF and LOS are not working very well in diagonal setups. Have you tested this in your maps?
 



 

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On 12/29/2020 at 1:28 AM, John1966 said:

On the subject of Market Garden, the allies seemed to be oblivious to the fact that the road was surrounded by polder that was completely unsuitable for XXX Corps' tanks. Which is why they had to stick to the road and present easy targets for the German gunners. The Nijmegen-Arnhem stretch was a particular non-starter.

The Dutch underground pointed it out but were largely ignored.

What I can remember of the Netherlands is that polders are north of the river delta and mostly in the provinces of North and South Holland. The 'Afsluitdijk' was completed just before WW 2 and the IJsselmeer was only reclaimed well after WW2. The Netherlands is not good tank country the rivers also have a levee or dike system which manages the flooding during winter. This is what you mean with 'polder country' possibly. Their approach was only one road which had to be used for the time permitted. The Dutch underground was compromised as the Germans had infiltrated it. So, it was a no no in the eyes of the allies. Their commander Prins Bernhard was German born not found to be competent or trustworthy by the allies. The allies were opposed by a competent and ruthless enemy with one of the most efficient police forces in Europe. The underground at best knew when one of their own was caught and automatically assumed he or she would talk. The cause of it was since the French era the brother of Napoleon Bonaparte (Louis Bonaparte) introduced a population registrar and the Germans got their hands on it and knew exactly where everybody lived or worked. You try to organize a partisan or secret army in that environment. The allies knew all of this and had a good reason to be skeptical of any bit of intel, especially if it was too good to be true.  

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1 hour ago, chuckdyke said:

What I can remember of the Netherlands is that polders are north of the river delta and mostly in the provinces of North and South Holland. The 'Afsluitdijk' was completed just before WW 2 and the IJsselmeer was only reclaimed well after WW2. The Netherlands is not good tank country the rivers also have a levee or dike system which manages the flooding during winter. This is what you mean with 'polder country' possibly. Their approach was only one road which had to be used for the time permitted. The Dutch underground was compromised as the Germans had infiltrated it. So, it was a no no in the eyes of the allies. Their commander Prins Bernhard was German born not found to be competent or trustworthy by the allies. The allies were opposed by a competent and ruthless enemy with one of the most efficient police forces in Europe. The underground at best knew when one of their own was caught and automatically assumed he or she would talk. The cause of it was since the French era the brother of Napoleon Bonaparte (Louis Bonaparte) introduced a population registrar and the Germans got their hands on it and knew exactly where everybody lived or worked. You try to organize a partisan or secret army in that environment. The allies knew all of this and had a good reason to be skeptical of any bit of intel, especially if it was too good to be true.  

Just going by Anthony Beevor's Arnhem (because I just finished it). 

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2 hours ago, umlaut said:

I mentioned you, because I also use your great "Biodiversity" mods

Your bocage pics look wonderful. I had considered making my own versions diagonal myself, but I chose not to because in my experience LOF and LOS are not working very well in diagonal setups. Have you tested this in your maps?
 



 

thank you UMLAUT,

I am remake a mod month by month
but Lucky gave so many bmp, the possibilities are so great that I take a little time to refine it.


yes exact with the diagonals and the relief, a good number of LOS and LOF are grayed out when one tries them that does not prevent the fighting but the whole of the squad does not benefit from line of sight it is necessary to divide it and seek the zones of visibility like on the  in RL
it's a lot of micromanagement and therefore reserved for small battle with very detailed maps

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1 hour ago, Falaise said:

but Lucky gave so many bmp, the possibilities are so great that I take a little time to refine it.

Hah, we aim to please🌳🌳🌳

1 hour ago, Falaise said:

yes exact with the diagonals and the relief, a good number of LOS and LOF are grayed out when one tries them that does not prevent the fighting but the whole of the squad does not benefit from line of sight it is necessary to divide it and seek the zones of visibility like on the  in RL
it's a lot of micromanagement and therefore reserved for small battle with very detailed maps

It's a shame that we can't make a 22 degree diagonal bocage tile like your excellent road mod

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7 hours ago, John1966 said:

Just going by Anthony Beevor's Arnhem (because I just finished it). 

One thing I know about being bilingual, one must be careful which words to use especially from another language. The route was through the eastern province of Brabant, Arnhem is in the province of Gelderland where the Meuse, the Rhine (which splits into the rivers Waal en de Rijn in Dutch) form a delta.  The Romans made the area already into defensive terrain and used Germanic auxiliaries to defend it (The Batavi) I appreciate the author gave you an enjoyable book. To my knowledge there are no polders in the provinces of Brabant and Gelderland. The terrain however may be similar.

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28 minutes ago, Warts 'n' all said:

I don't wish to be too pedantic but with street names like "Polderweg" and "Rosandepolder" on the north bank of the river near the Driel Ferry crossing, I think it would be fair to say that Gelderland has polders.

 

A polder means reclaimed land which is under sea level. Take the word Dutch I am sure you're familiar with. Derived from Duits in Dutch. In the 17th century the word 'Duits' in the Netherlands had the same or similar meaning as Dutch has in English today. Today Duits means German in Dutch. Polder seems to have changed its meaning originally it meant marshy ground. I just had to look up the etymology of the word. Dyke Chucking could mean evicting ladies of a certain sexual orientation. But we get off topic here. You live a lot closer to the Netherlands than I do. Kind regards

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