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We need more modders and scenarios makers


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I'm guessing that a few scenariodesigners have been and still are in...waiting-mode.

BFC have been struggeling to fix some of the AI 'bugs'...several have been delt with but yet more AI improvements will be released with the F&R module for CMRT.

Hopefully scenariodesigning will pick up somewhat shortelly.

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I did two scenarios, and then I stopped. My personal experience was that while scenario making can be fun, it's also a ton of work. And while some of that work comes from testing and balancing, a lot of the workload is also due the editor not being very user-friendly. If BFC wants more people to do scenarios, making the editor easier to use would help.

For example, adding basic functionality like an undo function would help lots. Or an ability to rename AI groups so you don't have to remember that group #3 are 1st platoon HQ, # 7 is AT guns, etc. And maybe change the system for selecting configurations of doors/windows/damage/textures for building walls.

But I'm not thinking they will invest in changing the editor this late in the game's lifecycle.

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A few of the usual suspects have been quite busy with R2V and FnR for a while. Probably with less time to just relax and dream up new scenarios. I know for myself, with play testing a bunch of scenarios, my energy level and time for just playing CM is much less.

Dave

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4 hours ago, Combatintman said:

Everyone who has a copy of the game has access to the tools, including yourself.

Yeah i have used the editor in CM-BFN just to add more units on certian defensive scenarios to make them harder.

But i dont have much knowledge on creating a full scenario. Maybe i feel the game is just lacking in contant and im looking for modding to fill the gap.

 

3 hours ago, Bulletpoint said:

I did two scenarios, and then I stopped. My personal experience was that while scenario making can be fun, it's also a ton of work. And while some of that work comes from testing and balancing, a lot of the workload is also due the editor not being very user-friendly. If BFC wants more people to do scenarios, making the editor easier to use would help.

For example, adding basic functionality like an undo function would help lots. Or an ability to rename AI groups so you don't have to remember that group #3 are 1st platoon HQ, # 7 is AT guns, etc. And maybe change the system for selecting configurations of doors/windows/damage/textures for building walls.

But I'm not thinking they will invest in changing the editor this late in the game's lifecycle.

Yeah i bet it is alot of work having a mess around with the Editor my self it.

It would be nice to have more defensive missions on the German side.

2 hours ago, Ultradave said:

A few of the usual suspects have been quite busy with R2V and FnR for a while. Probably with less time to just relax and dream up new scenarios. I know for myself, with play testing a bunch of scenarios, my energy level and time for just playing CM is much less.

Dave

Yeah i know with modding games can take a lot of engery and then put you off playing the game.

Hopfully we get it on steam and get new players and modders to add to the community

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The better QB got the fewer 3rd party scenarios got made. Back-in-the-day if you wanted to fight specific units against specific units you needed to make it yourself because the QB engine wasn't mature yet. Now you select what you want, select the map, weather, season and region you want, and have at it. A well constructed scenario is of course much preferable but its more work.

When making scenario orders a pen and pad of paper at your elbow is your friend.😥  It seems a lot of new scenario designers suffer from being over-ambitious. Scenario making is hard if you make it hard, and its easy if you make it easy. Choreographing the movements of an infantry battalion across a 3km map for a 2 hour battle really is hard. Doing a company-scale battle across 1.5km is easier. Doing two squads crossing an 800m map is even easier.

Edited by MikeyD
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4 hours ago, ironcross13 said:

Yeah i know with modding games can take a lot of engery and then put you off playing the game

Not so much put one off playing as just exhaust a body. Modding in itself is also part of the fun of the game, at least it is for me. I can’t speak for others but I get the sense that the creative process, whether it be through modding or mapping or researching, is all part of our joint obsession, sometimes frustrating, mostly enjoyable, ultimately elementary to the game. The beauty of these games is that here are no limits to what we can all make.

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I definitely have an interest in making some scenarios for the community. I really enjoy creating the map but I find creating AI orders daunting. I suppose I just haven't found the time to read up on how to create an interesting scenario. Especially when I have so many campaigns and scenarios to play!

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21 hours ago, Lucky_Strike said:

I get the sense that the creative process, whether it be through modding or mapping or researching, is all part of our joint obsession

It's a nice idea, but many of us just want to play as part of stress reduction and do not see any pleasure in committing hundreds of hours to modding, map-making or design etc.  We applaud and give moral support (and often volunteer playtesting time) to those who do enjoy that activity and who apparently enjoy spending hundreds of hours doing those creative activities.  But, there is sometimes a disconnect when those admirable folks seem to resent that fact that not everyone else enjoys doing what they enjoy and may have other activities that they want to spend their time on. 

Personally, I would happily pay BF to make modules of well-made and tested campaigns as those are horribly time-consuming to make and many of the more recent ones are not that great compared to ones made when CM2 first came out and everyone was more excited.

Edited by Erwin
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If you look at the scenarios that have been created in the Scenario Depot you will find very few comments. Maybe if more people made some comments on how the liked them or what needs improvement we can get more user created scenarios and campaigns. 

There have been quite a few new scenarios created for Normandy over the last two months, some quite detailed and are worth looking into and playing.

Edited by Commanderski
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46 minutes ago, Erwin said:

It's a nice idea, but many of us just want to play as part of stress reduction and do not see any pleasure in committing hundreds of hours to modding, map-making or design etc. 

Yes of course. I speak merely from a personal perspective, and only echo what I sense those that do feel. Those that don't have their own obsessions, but their support is always welcome, at least for me. Much of what we create cannot exist in a vacuum - without critique, testing, deployment what would it be? I do personally make the mods for my own play, I want to make the game look better, or rather look how I think it should look, but I get equal pleasure from sharing the work, ego gets a satisfying boost, a legacy is created, friendships are forged, a difference is made. 

1 hour ago, Erwin said:

But, there is sometimes a disconnect when those admirable folks seem to resent that fact that not everyone else enjoys doing what they enjoy and may have other activities that they want to spend their time on.

Yes, there may be an element of resentment out there, or it could be a response to a lack of appreciation, or to criticism of something that is provided gratis. After all, nobody is forced to use any of the community-created material, be it mods or maps or campaigns or whatever, but without it, any of it, we would all be poorer for sure. For myself, I'm a creative artist professionally and very used to criticism by those that don't - water off a ducks back 🦆. I know that, mostly, it's nothing personal and they (those that don't) as often as not don't know their arse from their elbow when it comes to taste ... 😉

1 hour ago, Erwin said:

Personally, I would happily pay BF to make modules of well-made and tested campaigns as those are horribly time-consuming to make and many of the more recent ones are not that great compared to ones made when CM2 first came out and everyone was more excited.

Personally I would be happy if BF paid me ... 😏

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1 minute ago, Commanderski said:

If you look at the scenarios that have been created in the Scenario Depot you will find very few comments. Maybe if more people made some comments on how the liked them or what needs improvement we can get more user created scenarios and campaigns. 

For sure  - it's hard to keep creating new stuff in a vacuum, folks will just drift away from it without some acknowledgement of their efforts.

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Maybe I'm expecking to much from the players. I think some FB is a great game ive studied the war alot and I do like to play the Germanys more then US, UK, Russia.

These games are not cheap i own CMBFN full pack, CMFB, CMRT. maybe the devs should of added alot more secnarios or add more after realease. They are the experts with the game engine. 

I think the games would benifit from more small medium size secnarios. More defensive secnarios.

I dont use the quick battle option much as i just did not think it worked very well.

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2 hours ago, Commanderski said:

Maybe if more people made some comments on how the liked them or what needs improvement we can get more user created scenarios and campaigns. 

You do realize that some designers may have personality/character issues and can react very negatively to honestly meant constructive criticisms.  I was informed by a member that one guy was slagging me off in private mail cos he didn't like my comments.  So, it's understandable that many do not want that kind of hassle.

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The "devs" never "should of" done anything. But, perhaps they should "have" done something. A public information announcement from those oh so nice people at CAMHAVE (The Campaign for the preservation of the word have). Of course they are slightly more tolerant than that angry bastard Cromwell, who would "have" just chopped your napper off.

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On 12/11/2020 at 11:45 AM, Bulletpoint said:

And while some of that work comes from testing and balancing, a lot of the workload is also due the editor not being very user-friendly.

It would have been so much easier and quicker if one didn't have to jump between the 2D map and the 3D map to do some changes.

But there is hopefully going to come a new game engine which will make doing scenarios and maps a lot easier.

If Battlefront is planning to make a new engine and in that wants to keep a 2D map separate from the 3D map, it could still be easier if it was possible to have them in different tabs with real time changes in the 3D map of what is being done in the 2D map. One could in that case go into the 3D map tab and check the changes made in the 2D map tab without having to load the 3D map.

Edited by BornGinger
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I'm amazed that people are finding the map editor difficult. Granted, assembling a stretch of highway is a puzzle game in its own right. But everything else is pretty straightforward. Nothing will simplify constructing downtown Antwerp for you. And a 3km square map will always be 8x the labor of a 1km square map. But once you resolve to not attempt impossible projects things get much simpler.

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Tip to make maps a little less daunting. At least what works for me.

- Do the nature stuff first. Elevations, ground tile coverage (map out forests etc) and water.

- Roads and rail next as they are the most trickiest to match up to a pre-existing map given the 45 degree limitation. Also bridges. :)

- Everything else. I like to focus on pockets at a time and build it up to near completion before moving on. Stay out of the 3D preview mode until a batch of work is done in a pocket and review all at once.

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2 hours ago, MikeyD said:

I'm amazed that people are finding the map editor difficult. Granted, assembling a stretch of highway is a puzzle game in its own right. But everything else is pretty straightforward. Nothing will simplify constructing downtown Antwerp for you. And a 3km square map will always be 8x the labor of a 1km square map. But once you resolve to not attempt impossible projects things get much simpler.

The problem I belive is that most people want to play on good maps...not simple ones...

Playing on a well designed/detailed map is more enjoyable compared to playing on a hastely designed one...

The problem is not neccesarely the difficulty in creating good, detailed ones but rather the time commitment neccesary for creating such a map...even if it is fairly small.

Such simple things as designing a realistic looking/varied forrest and not just plink down a number of the same trees on a number of tiles....takes time.

Editing buildings, damage, elevation etc...takes time. It is not difficult...but it takes time.

Adding flavoured objects...takes time !

Additional mapfeatures that would speed up/ simplify mapdesign would be most welcome 🤓.

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From my experience, if you decide to produce content (mod, make maps, scenarios, campaigns, post pictures of Kate Upton's jugs, etc.), do not expect anything in return. Maybe enjoy a few pats on the backs from forum buddies. Expect to get very little feedback or comments. Do it because you might enjoy the learning process. Do it because you really want to fight the CM battle you are researching and trying to create. Do it if you HAVE TIME to invest. Like after a divorce or recovering from a cardiac surgery!  

 

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