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How to use BMPs? They're a funny shape!


THH149

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1 minute ago, Lethaface said:

I'd never send a vehicle by itself on a long move through unknown / not covered terrain (especially not an open Jeep which has 0 protection against small arms).
But as part of a larger maneuver, yes it's always good to be shooting at suspected locations while moving and ending up in cover.
However I thought we were talking about shoot & scoot in urban terrain with BMP-2s 😉

 

Same principle ideally uses more than one. Vehicle No 2 gives covering fire for vehicle no1 at suspected positions No3 covers No2. Speed is their defense I rarely lose a vehicle. In Battle for Normandy .50 Cal on Jeeps. On Fast through the streets With Jeeps and scout cars. Their job is recon, and they achieve it by shooting first. . In this scenario the area is dangerous for Marders as indeed there are Kornet type ATGM's on overwatch. 4x4 go fast with them it is their best defense. Try it with BMP-2s. I only suggested a technique and 4X4 are the best vehicle for the job. Their mission should take a minute. 

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8 minutes ago, chuckdyke said:

Same principle ideally uses more than one. Vehicle No 2 gives covering fire for vehicle no1 at suspected positions No3 covers No2. Speed is their defense I rarely lose a vehicle. In Battle for Normandy .50 Cal on Jeeps. On Fast through the streets With Jeeps and scout cars. Their job is recon, and they achieve it by shooting first. . In this scenario the area is dangerous for Marders as indeed there are Kornet type ATGM's on overwatch. 4x4 go fast with them it is their best defense. Try it with BMP-2s. I only suggested a technique and 4X4 are the best vehicle for the job. Their mission should take a minute. 


I would prefer recon on foot instead, if possible. 

I wouldn't worry about AT-14 with regards to your G-wagons, in a match against a good player they would probably be on armor arcs and so not triggered by Jeeps. And indeed their speed make ATGM / RPG fires unlikely to hit. 
However, small arms fire is much faster and more numerous. A couple of infantry sentry teams could easily shoot up your G-wagon. Which will give you recon info, but that info could also have been obtained by some infantry scout teams at lesser cost.

But if time is of the essence and or long range recon is necessary, than yes I can see a recon by fire with fast vehicles as a valid option. Like you say, movement in bounds from cover to cover with a pair of vehicles covering / shooting for another moving pair is a good tactic. And indeed why not also shoot on the move.
I once tried a big manuever like this in urban terrain with two platoon of tanks and a mech inf company (PBEM). Didn't have time for proper scouting as my forward base was under assault. Did record some of the turns (just some nvidia captures of a couple playback movies):

 

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But still that's not shooting & scooting we were talking about originally.

Anyway, sounds like your getting ready for some PBEMs! 😉

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3 minutes ago, Lethaface said:


I would prefer recon on foot instead, if possible. 

I wouldn't worry about AT-14 with regards to your G-wagons, in a match against a good player they would probably be on armor arcs and so not triggered by Jeeps. And indeed their speed make ATGM / RPG fires unlikely to hit. 
However, small arms fire is much faster and more numerous. A couple of infantry sentry teams could easily shoot up your G-wagon. Which will give you recon info, but that info could also have been obtained by some infantry scout teams at lesser cost.

But if time is of the essence and or long range recon is necessary, than yes I can see a recon by fire with fast vehicles as a valid option. Like you say, movement in bounds from cover to cover with a pair of vehicles covering / shooting for another moving pair is a good tactic. And indeed why not also shoot on the move.
I once tried a big manuever like this in urban terrain with two platoon of tanks and a mech inf company (PBEM). Didn't have time for proper scouting as my forward base was under assault. Did record some of the turns (just some nvidia captures of a couple playback movies):

 

--


But still that's not shooting & scooting we were talking about originally.

Anyway, sounds like your getting ready for some PBEMs! 😉

Read the scenario it requested early Intel and the Recon unit available was the German 4X4. The road is an LDA (Linear Danger Area) The reasoning if I were the enemy, I would use it to observe. I could shoot at the building whatever is in the building can shoot at me. The MG1 is not the worst weapon in a firefight. Shoot and Scoot, set waypoint to shoot till 2nd waypoint plot a reverse to death ground. 1 shoot order only. It is the KISS principle. 

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1 minute ago, chuckdyke said:

Read the scenario it requested early Intel and the Recon unit available was the German 4X4. The road is an LDA (Linear Danger Area) The reasoning if I were the enemy, I would use it to observe. I could shoot at the building whatever is in the building can shoot at me. The MG1 is not the worst weapon in a firefight. Shoot and Scoot, set waypoint to shoot till 2nd waypoint plot a reverse to death ground. 1 shoot order only. It is the KISS principle. 

Don't know which scenario you talked about, also not behind game PC. I'm just scrolling a bit on the forum between / during some meetings which require my presence but not much interaction. 

Anyway my point was that we started talking about this when you said that you're shoot & scoot protocol was very different. Now the conversation has moved to recon by fire / maneuver warfare.

Shoot and scoot is, at least in my book, something used against an opponent you know is there but in a situation where you don't know if there are more opponents. The classic shoot & scoot is to have a tank behind a hill, move it up to hull down, shoot at the enemy, reverse behind the hill. But of course in theory you could call any shooting and moving 'shoot & scoot'.

Anyway, goedenavond! :)

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@Lethaface it is in SF2 Germany on the March should be in the NATO module. You have Recon by guile, and you have Recon by force. Start with a Leaders Recon, it stops when the first contact icons are generated. I shoot and scoot most of time nobody is exposed at the end of the turn. Napoleon is reported to have said: I may have lost good men, but I never lost a minute. 

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On 2/26/2021 at 1:38 AM, chuckdyke said:

SF2 Germany on the March

I'm playing that very scenario right now PBEM, bagged a Leopard, Marder and two Weasal's so far and have another Leopard lined up at 100metres side shot from a RPG Vampyre, my own losses are a platoon of infantry, two AT-14s and T55MV. 

But that's of topic, back to BMPs ....  in this there is some classic shoot and scoot BMP style  .... 

 

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On 2/26/2021 at 1:06 AM, Lethaface said:

Did record some of the turns (just some nvidia captures of a couple playback movies):

Did you design the scenario? I'm impressed by the rubble, how'd you do it? Looks like a combo or hard ground, large rocks and brick piles but how did you do the bricks?

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26 minutes ago, THH149 said:

I'm playing that very scenario right now PBEM, bagged a Leopard, Marder and two Weasal's so far and have another Leopard lined up at 100metres side shot from a RPG Vampyre, my own losses are a platoon of infantry, two AT-14s and T55MV. 

But that's of topic, back to BMPs ....  in this there is some classic shoot and scoot BMP style  .... 

 

The Gun depression of the BMP, if we must plot Hull Down by using it's Gun I don't think it is fair. The ATGM's is the weapon for distance and the Gun for close by. The operator for the Sagger for example didn't have full control for the first 1 km. I imagine it will have more up to date ATGM's which work like the Milan or US TOW. 

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On 2/25/2021 at 10:28 PM, Lethaface said:

Don't know which scenario you talked about, also not behind game PC. I'm just scrolling a bit on the forum between / during some meetings which require my presence but not much interaction. 

Anyway my point was that we started talking about this when you said that you're shoot & scoot protocol was very different. Now the conversation has moved to recon by fire / maneuver warfare.

Shoot and scoot is, at least in my book, something used against an opponent you know is there but in a situation where you don't know if there are more opponents. The classic shoot & scoot is to have a tank behind a hill, move it up to hull down, shoot at the enemy, reverse behind the hill. But of course in theory you could call any shooting and moving 'shoot & scoot'.

Anyway, goedenavond! :)

Correct Shoot and Scoot was and still is an artillery tactic to avoid counter battery fire. You use for example mortars in APC's that way. The moment they fire their position is known and even 50 years ago their trajectory was picked up by radar. It can be used by any other AFV to avoid going to be shot at. 

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