Jump to content

Those jonesing for CM in the 80s will love this


Recommended Posts

One of my CoC colleagues found and posted this British Army 1983 training film on fighting the Soviet Advanced Guard. In my 11+ years as a Soviet Threat Analyst, I never saw anything like this. It's fantastic, and that's an understatement. This sort of thing was my bread and butter at Hughes Aircraft Company Missile Systems Group, since we built both TOW and Maverick and were involved in work on what eventually was the Javelin, as well as deep strike systems, such as Assault Breaker and WASP. 
 

Regards,

John Kettler

Edited by John Kettler
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, John Kettler said:

One of my CoC colleagues found and posted this British Army 1983 video on fighting the Soviet Advanced Guard. In my 11+ years as a Soviet Threat Analyst, I never saw anything like this. It's fantastic, and that's an understatement.   

+1.  Thanks, John.  Interesting stuff. 

CM Fulda Gap!!!!   :D  :)

Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Combatintman said:

Ah yes - the training films of my youth, some were very good indeed, others were positively dreadful.

Ah the good old days when the Soviet MMR was the bogyman and their chariot of choice was the BTR60 PB. Nothing like a yellow handbag though to remove any concerns !

Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, Sulman said:

Amazing videos. The '83 one coincidentally was the same year as Able Archer which spooked the Soviers in Eastern Europe enormously. I found this super document which ties together Russian doctrine from a variety of sources:

The Russian Way of War

This is a great document by Grau, but it is important to note that it is about modern Russian doctrine, not Soviet. There are significant differences between the two. Modern Russian doctrine is quite different than Soviet doctrine. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, IICptMillerII said:

This is a great document by Grau, but it is important to note that it is about modern Russian doctrine, not Soviet. There are significant differences between the two. Modern Russian doctrine is quite different than Soviet doctrine. 

Yep, fair enough. I found it actually looking for just about anything on how to fight as the Russians would, just to try out these things in the safety of my computer chair.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/5/2020 at 1:01 AM, Sulman said:

Amazing videos. The '83 one coincidentally was the same year as Able Archer which spooked the Soviers in Eastern Europe enormously. I found this super document which ties together Russian doctrine from a variety of sources:

The Russian Way of War

Interresting videos and infos about tactic in the 80' where some of us were in these real situation...

Edited by 3j2m7
Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Combatintman said:

For those not familiar with the 'yellow handbag' cultural reference ...

https://collection.nam.ac.uk/detail.php?acc=2018-04-3-1

 

Made up that this is from the National Army Museum, although in my day 4 Armoured Division was Herford-based.

Now that is cool - kudos to the NAM for being on point, and now I'm feeling thirsty

P

Link to post
Share on other sites

Many years ago I heard a very odd story from a guy in Tuscon AZ who claimed to be former Special Forces during the Vietnam war. He claimed there were full-up tank battles along the DMZ that the Pentagon had hushed up (the only tank-on-tank battle we know of between USA and North Vietnam was Ben Het). He painted a lurid picture of terrified infantry cowering in foxholes while opposing tanks violently had at each other. He even included an oddly specific detail about one M48 tank returning to camp only to discover they had been holed right through the lower hull beneath the turret basket and hadn't been aware of it!

There's  three options for this story. Either...
1) the guy was full of hot air.
2) the guy was describing an engagement between NVA and ARVN, not US forces.
3) the Pentagon kept the incident under wraps because we weren't coming off quite 'victorious' enough for publication. M48 vs T55 is not a guaranteed victory. I don't know if M48's 90mm APDS could penetrate the front of a T55 at range.

My point being, I doubt that success was guaranteed for NATO through most of the Cold War. That's the reason for the nuclear tripwire defense. Up until the mid-80s  NATO was pretty sure they'd lose if they didn't go nuclear.

I do enjoy talking cold war after so long. I was a cold war baby, grew up down the road from a SAC B52 base. Ah, the good old days of fearing imminent nuclear incineration. 😎

Link to post
Share on other sites

MikeyD,

Did some digging, and NVA T-54s were destroyed by ARVN M41 Walker Bulldogs and M48A3 Pattons. In one battle I'm trying to recall, the ARVNs were killing T-54s from so far away (well outside of their own effective range) the T-54 crews thought they were in an antitank minefield. This juicy morsel was from intercepted radio traffic from panicked TCs. Offhand, I don't recall how much better protected the T-55 may've been than the T-55. 

Regards,

John Kettler

Edited by John Kettler
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/4/2020 at 6:01 PM, Sulman said:

Amazing videos. The '83 one coincidentally was the same year as Able Archer which spooked the Soviers in Eastern Europe enormously. I found this super document which ties together Russian doctrine from a variety of sources:

The Russian Way of War

Does anyone know of something like this but for Cold War Soviet doctrine?

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/6/2020 at 1:43 PM, MikeyD said:

My point being, I doubt that success was guaranteed for NATO through most of the Cold War. That's the reason for the nuclear tripwire defense. Up until the mid-80s  NATO was pretty sure they'd lose if they didn't go nuclear.

Long ago an ex-armour officer told me NATO were terrified in the early 60s of the sheer volume of pretty good tanks (T-55) the Soviets could field in the Fulda Gap, but this capability ('tank gap' with apologies to Dr. strangelove) was mitigated fairly quickly with qualitative measures on NATO's behalf like HESH and Chad Krupstahl's finest. Also the  shine was taken off the T-series reputation fairly quickly in the middle east against numerically inferior opposition. Well trained crews in good equipment would be more than a match for the Soviet threat. Israel's contribution to modern tank doctrine is understated. 

Edited by Sulman
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/4/2020 at 11:39 PM, Erwin said:

Saw this interesting one as well:  [Magistral]

Nice find, some uniquely Afghan war stuff in that one.

This one has some good footage too, including what appears to be a Scud SRBM battery without missiles (32:48):

Just wish it had subtitles too.

Edited by Sgt.Squarehead
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...