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Knock Knock --- Best way to enter and clear a building? (enemy included)


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Please if you recognize the scenario I am talking about - NO SPOILERS.

Okay, I have a rectangular 1 story building with known enemy inside (Germans - WWII) with 3 large rooms each connected by a doorway.  Each room has its own separate outside door.  I only have CW small arms.  My question is more about game mechanics than RL.

I will smoke that side of the build, and deploy 3 Bren teams.  The 3 Bren teams will poor suppressing fire (area fire) into each of the units.

Now, here are my options.

Let's just consider one unit (meaning building module) first.

(A)  Do I send in two separate teams with quick and 10 second pause on the trailing team?  Team 1 has a Thompson and bolt action.  Team 2 has two bolt actions.

or

(B)  Do I leave the two above combined and send the 4 man team in via an assault order?  I worry about his, because I suspect the mechanics of assault is tuned for the "great outdoors" and not bursting through doorways.  So, that there is going to be no one covering the first guys who go in, because they are positioned and looking for shooters who are outside.  Also, I worry that 4 guys will suffer a deadly traffic jam at the door.

or

(C) Do I leave the two above combined and send the 4 man team in via a quick order, and expect that the AI is agile enough to cover the angles while 1 or 2 guys go in first?

Let's consider the three units (building modules).

(D)  Do I attempt to enter all units from the outside doors?  I don't like this idea as despite suppressing fire, sending men running in front of a window with potential shooters (with grenades) gives me the shivers.

(E)  Do I simply enter the first unit from the outside, and enter the next two units from the inside?  Again as above?  2 teams and a 5 or 10 second pause?  1 team via assault?  1 team via quick?

(F)  Is there a role for the hunt command in any of this?

Comments?  Besides responding, please state your reasons.  Thanks.

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(G) You forget all about kicking in the door like an action hero, and instead you use smoke, move your Bren guns into cover with LOF within 150m of the buildings. When the smoke clears, you shoot it out with the Germans and then once they are dead you enter the builing. 

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19 minutes ago, markshot said:

My brens will be around 80M.

So, you think they will be able to simply do it on their own?

Definitely. Three brens VS one mg42 is a good matchup.

Edit: Assuming there's only one enemy team in there of course! You have to find out about that first.

Edited by Bulletpoint
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You might want to hide your bren teams behind the cover until the smoke clears. Then unhide them all at the same time. If not, you can get into a situation where the smoke clears from one end, forcing each Bren team to duel with the MG on its own. That's a bad matchup.

Or you could forget about the smoke and use area fire to suppress the enemy team while moving.

Edited by Bulletpoint
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This is all dependent on the 'size' and type of building. Barns are particularly porous to incoming fire. Cathedral pieces aren't. Large size modular buildings, peppering them with fire will only suppress the enemy. Small size building you're more likely to hit them as they're laying prone. To your advantage you've got 'big bullet' 7.62 rifles. Carbines and smg's firing on buildings don't do much at all (unless someone's standing in front of a window).

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2 hours ago, Bulletpoint said:

(G) You forget all about kicking in the door like an action hero, and instead you use smoke, move your Bren guns into cover with LOF within 150m of the buildings. When the smoke clears, you shoot it out with the Germans and then once they are dead you enter the builing. 

What he said.

Once you think everything is quiet then follow A, B or C just to be sure.

2 hours ago, markshot said:

No satchel charges, no priest, no M1A2 ...  Just bolt action rifles; 1895 surplus.

Sure sure bring those too :D

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The best way to clear a building is to flatten it with HE or flame it; the second best is to bust through a blind wall with satchel charges and pour in (although you have to watch out for enemy troops immediately outside the building on the other side waiting to ambush you.

If those two methods are out - I use heavy suppressing fire and approach the building slowly and carefully before sending a squad or so to charge in from close range.

You have to accurately estimate how many enemy are in the building - the AI sometimes packs buildings with more troops than you might imagine. If, from a distance, you're regularly seeing one or two enemy in there, there may well be more than a whole squad. If you're seeing what looks like a squad, there's probably a platoon...

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by reading this thread I am reassured because I was ended up believing that I am an original
I adore the Stummels as well as the stuarts
but I think I had such a bad idea that I could only be pleasantly surprised
my disappointment is the panther, by dint of using them I came to the same conclusion as this film, a turret tank hunter

 

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As others have noted the best way to enter an enemy occupied building (if one doesn't have the HE to flatten it) is to direct many minutes (a good rule of thumb is twice as much as the maximum you think necessary) of suppressive fire at it to suppress the enemy before entering.  This is a standard SOP and one has little choice.  Either it works, or it will cause many friendly casualties no matter what you do.

However...  many designers have figured out an enemy response to this.  They will place the enemy defenders behind a 2nd wall.  ie:  You can can use as much suppressive fire as you have but it will only have an effect on the area behind the first wall of a building.  Little, if any effect, will be made vs troops behind the 2nd wall.

So, when your breach troops enter the building, they will usually get mowed down by the largely ok enemy troops who are behind the next wall.  There are 2 responses that I have used to some good effect (assuming there is insufficient HE to destroy the entire building):

1)  When the breach troops enter the final action spot has to immediately have them fire at the next (2nd) wall - hopefully that will suppress the enemy there.

2) Use SMOKE.  In the game, smoke propagates as if there is no building obstruction.  ie:  It will cover the next two or more rooms and drift onwards thru more rooms of the building  However, the waypoint in the building that was previously made (see 1) will still work for the breach troops so as to allow them to fire at the 2nd wall before the smoke takes effect and hinders any LOS.  

In this way, the enemy LOS is hindered, so as to (hopefully) allow your guys to shoot first - which is vital.

This is still a probability game, so nothing is 100% guaranteed.  But, in my 13 years of playing CMSF this is the best way I have found (assuming one cannot destroy the building - which is still the best method).

 

Edited by Erwin
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