Has anyone written a guide or an exceptional good thread on QB?

[markshot]

Basically, how to get the most rewarding experience out of setting a QB engagement for human vs AI?

Thanks.

[Kevin2k]

Here are some links.

The first one; "QB map pdfs", is just that. Previews of the stock QB maps.

The other links below contain posts were MarkEzra explains things concerning the Quick Battle system and its maps. MarkEzra created and converted most Quick Battle maps in the Combat Mission games.

Finally, here is small table I made outlining the different game and map types in Quick Battles.

Tiny quick battle CMFI v2.02  total points of both sides = 2347 or 2348
        Attacker Defender
Meet    1174     1174     Both sides have similar setup zones, Terrain / casualties VP ratio = 400 / 600
Probe   1389      959     Attacker setup zone is way smaller,  Terrain / casualties VP ratio = 500 / 500
Attack  1442      905     Attacker setup zone is way smaller,  Terrain / casualties VP ratio = 650 / 350
Assault 1496      851     Attacker setup zone is way smaller,  Terrain / casualties VP ratio = 750 / 250

 

 

 

[gnarly]

12 hours ago, markshot said:

Basically, how to get the most rewarding experience out of setting a QB engagement for human vs AI?

Thanks.

Change out 'AI' for another 'hoo-man'....   ;D

[markshot]

Thank you Kevin for all the great info.

Ever since CMx1, I look at the multitude of QB options, and think COOL.  But I have no idea which choices will create a thriller fight and which will be a total dud.

Actually, psych studies have shown that too many choices immobilize people.

For example, give employees 3 funds to invest their retirement savings in, and they join the program.

Give them 14 funds, and most people simply don't join as they are overwhelmed with the options.

[Bulletpoint]

5 hours ago, markshot said:

Ever since CMx1, I look at the multitude of QB options, and think COOL.  But I have no idea which choices will create a thriller fight and which will be a total dud.

QB against human: Thrill.

QB against AI: Dud.

[markshot]

I have spent quite a bit of time looking at the scenario editor and QB maps.

NOTE:  I am not criticizing MarkEzra who has produced an amazing wealth of interesting maps.

But it should be noted the that the plans/objectives for QBs as best as I can tell, basically specify a map axis of attack or a general location to defend.

So, there is a setup zone and then Order #1 which is "go that way" with fairly identical generic hostile parameters.  (attacker)

So, there is a setup zone and lay in an ambush for 1,000M.  (defender)

---

I could see using existing maps, picking units, and throwing a few plans together and playing defense.  Yes, you would have some advanced knowledge, but your challenge would be to defeat superior forces with what you have which are coming your way by a number of routes.

---

I looks like BFCs scenario editor is quite sophisticated.  One wonders just how many features are really in use as the games were born in simpler times.

---

The main scenario editors I was familiar with were Steel Beast and Sub Command/Dangerous Waters.  (just the random spawning capability of some adversary in a particular area created all types possibilities)  One of the main problems I found with sophisticate scenarios is victory conditions that don't actually fire as they were not properly debugged.  The fancier an editor gets, the greater potential for mishaps.

I have always argue for better game AI over better scripting.  Better game AI graces every scenario where as better scripting is only makes a difference when a scenario designer used it.

[Probus]

3 hours ago, Bulletpoint said:

QB against human: Thrill.

QB against AI: Dud.

I agree. Some QB etiquette:

1. No Arty or airstrikes on the first turn. Setup areas are too exposed. Prolly ok during assaults but make sure both sides agree. 

2a. May take 2 or 3 trys to get the QB game going. If one party isn't happy with some aspect(s) of the setup, just try again so that both parties will have fun.

2b. The more a player is on defense, the less they have to do. Gravitate towards meeting engagements. 

3. Talk to each other during the game like you were playing table top. Increases the fun x 2. If they ambush you or get an amazing shot, make sure you praise them for it after you get done screaming at the screen. 

4. Chat, but don't give away too much information. If you do accidentally, consider it battlefield intelligence and have the appropriate pixeltroopen shot. 

5. Don't gloat. Generally not a good idea. 

6. The more modern the game, the deadlier it is. Slightly larger games balance lucky hits or near misses. 

7. Avoid randomizing QB settings for PBEM games. Plan the fun, don't depend on luck to make a good game. 

8. Keep difficulty at Veteran or higher for better fog of war. 

Edited October 1, 2020 by Probus

[Freyberg]

I have great QBs against the AI.

1) First, I use my own maps, which are larger than the typical QB map, with more AI groups (very broad and simple, but multiple groups just seems to make a difference) and lots of long-range fire opportunities.

2) I choose both sides myself, based on 'suggestions', but tweaked a little, usually infantry only or combined arms, but I give the AI tough forces. I don't scrutinise the suggested forces too much, just make sure they're reasonably tough (adding AT guns, MGs & light flak usually, and deleting any turkeys) - if you have more than one QB running at the same time, you quickly forget precisely how many of what unit or vehicle the AI has.

3) I also choose high morale and experience for the AI.

I have lots of fun - it's not too easy and it's not dull.

 

NB - oh, and I don't use TRPs or pre-planned artillery...

Edited October 2, 2020 by Freyberg

[markshot]

I only played a single PBEM, but won. 

Before there was an Internet, there was a national (USA) Falcon 3 Ladder on CompuServe.  Matches were done via direct phone 9600 modem connections.

I started writing notes which I began to circulate just to friends which became a book of 100 pages.  It was about 6 months that I went to top slot of the ladder and made my book a free public download.  I was accused of cheating (cheats I was unaware even existed).  I was accused of stealing the techniques of others and publishing.  That ladder was one of the worst experiences of my life.  I pretty much gave up playing with humans.

There are too much ego in what is just a hobby.  I always play SP.  I know human challengers are the best, but I resigned from that ladder, and am never going back again.

[MOS:96B2P]

On 9/30/2020 at 9:28 AM, markshot said:

Basically, how to get the most rewarding experience out of setting a QB engagement for human vs AI?

Thanks.

@womble posted the below several years ago which I paraphrased for my notes: 

One way I think you can, if you're picking AI forces yourself, mitigate the "putting units in inappropriate groups" problem is by making sure there are enough formations in the force to have "some of everything" in each group. Rather than picking one Battalion "head", then chopping out everything but the AT platoon (4 guns) and a company (3 rifle platoons and a heavy platoon) of infantry, pick four Battalion headers and chop out everything but one AT gun, some Rifle squads and an MG or two from the Heavy Platoon for each Battalion. AFAICT, the AI assigns alternating Formations to the default 2 groups, and will leave one group empty if you just pick the one Formation. Or if you pick a Formation for infantry and another for Armor, you'll have all the Infantry in one setup zone, following one set of orders, and all the Armor elsewhere, operating according to a different timetable which probably won't support your infantry's route.   

I've not played a QB vs AI in a very long time.  As far as I know the above still works.  I think some players pick the AI forces for several QB maps and then set the maps aside for a few months before playing.  When they go back to play they have often forgotten most of what they selected (one of the advantages of getting older ).  

If you like single player there are many good scenarios (different from QBs) that can be played.  Scenarios don't have to be generic like a QB so generally offer a much better experience.  Below is a link to the scenario depot where free scenarios can be downloaded.  I apologize if you already knew most of this.  Lurkers and future searchers may find the information useful. 

  https://www.thefewgoodmen.com/tsd3/

Edited October 3, 2020 by MOS:96B2P

[MOS:96B2P]

You can also take a favorite core unit with you to different QBs and scenarios.  Almost like fighting a campaign but your force always starts out in its original condition and supply state.  Below are the directions.   Sorry I couldn't get rid of the large blank space following the directions.

Edited October 3, 2020 by MOS:96B2P

[Bulletpoint]

15 hours ago, markshot said:

There are too much ego in what is just a hobby.  I always play SP.  I know human challengers are the best, but I resigned from that ladder, and am never going back again.

There's also a third option. You could play PBEMs but not participate in ladder matches. I think that's the best way to find calm and mature opponents - no offense to anyone who plays ladder games of course.

[Vanir Ausf B]

42 minutes ago, Bulletpoint said:

 no offense to anyone who plays ladder games of course.

None taken... 

 

 

 

 

[markshot]

Yesterday, I created my first QB in CMFI and was just about go off and fight it.  Until I went to examine the map in detail for planning.

241Attk Tiny City (steep hills) 241.btt

That a terrain generator created this map like in CMx1, I could believe, but that this was handcrafted --- AMAZING.

Each street was maybe 12-16M higher than the one before.  Think of mountain terraced rice paddies in Asia.

But it was the buildings ......

On one side of the street you had a few floors and doors and windows.  On the other side, the land had been filled in with a backhoe covering windows and doors, and maybe you might walk off the street onto a roof.  Well, I was looking to try a town clearing exercise, but the town looked like a US Southwest recreation of a pueblo dwelling.

My first QB experience.

I am off to find another map! 

BTW, I put in TINY forces, but if you go infantry the budget gets you like 8 platoons which includes heavy weapons teams.  It is not what I really considered TINY?  The only way I see of getting TINY is ignore the budget and buy for both sides.

Comments?  Thanks.

[Anonymous_Jonze]

On 10/2/2020 at 4:36 PM, Freyberg said:

I have great QBs against the AI.

1) First, I use my own maps, which are larger than the typical QB map, with more AI groups (very broad and simple, but multiple groups just seems to make a difference) and lots of long-range fire opportunities.

2) I choose both sides myself, based on 'suggestions', but tweaked a little, usually infantry only or combined arms, but I give the AI tough forces. I don't scrutinise the suggested forces too much, just make sure they're reasonably tough (adding AT guns, MGs & light flak usually, and deleting any turkeys) - if you have more than one QB running at the same time, you quickly forget precisely how many of what unit or vehicle the AI has.

3) I also choose high morale and experience for the AI.

I have lots of fun - it's not too easy and it's not dull.

 

NB - oh, and I don't use TRPs or pre-planned artillery...

Your own QB maps you say..? May you bestow these upoun us unworthy folk?

[Freyberg]

16 minutes ago, Anonymous_Jonze said:

Your own QB maps you say..? May you bestow these upoun us unworthy folk?

There's a whole bunch of them available for download in a thread in the 'Maps and Mods' section of CMFI - They're still a bit messy, in terms of missing descriptions, thumbnails etc, and missing AI plans for both sides (usually just an AI plan for defender), so I haven't put them on the Depot.

Over Christmas I'll try and finish them off properly (there are a lot of them!), and upload a big map pack to the Depot