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People who use the default buildings or terrain. Why?


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1 hour ago, Zveroboy1 said:

Worst case scenario if you used the animated text mod and forgot to remove it, you will have some funky unit names and you will have to reinstall the game. Okay sure that's a PITA but It takes 15-20 minutes tops. And there is an easy fix, don't use that mod.
 

That's actually an exaggeration... a patch that updated the scripts text file would only require the modded text file to be removed (the H&E team has had a LOT of fun with patches & scipt file changes!).

So, in fact, the worst case scenario is "having a bit of a fright & then having to restart the game".

I maintain that playing vanilla is perfectly okay, understandable & very, very common... I don't think anybody needs to inflate the "risks" involved in texture & sound modding.

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38 minutes ago, Thewood1 said:

And this is my point.

Hmm it looks like you missed the post just above yours explaining how this is actually not even necessary and thus a moot point.

39 minutes ago, Thewood1 said:

 Now you are running a thread trying to argue we are wrong.  So what was the true purpose of the thread?

I just reacted to two posts in a thread I created; one because I found the disappearing floor bit intriguing. And the second because of what you said concerning the need to remove mods when patching which is really not necessary at all.

There can be nothing wrong about personal preferences and I would be a fool to argue about these things. But someone might read the thread and be curious about modding and get the wrong idea as a result of your post, so naturally I tried to explain how this is a misconception. And I would have been happy to leave it at that had you not doubled down and asked me how small the risk is.

And there is no particular reason for the thread no.

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I have terrain mods in CMBN but not in any other titles. I think the later titles look good enough for me to not bother with them. For me, CMBN benefits quite a bit from some terrain mods. No other reason. I am constantly amazed at the work put in by people creating mods, so hats off to all of you.

Dave

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Just as an FYI:  I have anywhere from 25 to 90 mods in each of the games (I have them all), which contain thousands of textures; uniforms, skins, vehicles, buildings, foliage, walls, roads, etc. The only mod I never use anymore is Vin’s UI-animated text mod. It is the only “strings” mod that I know of, and is the only known culprit for causing problems (weird nomenclature) if left in during install of a patch or new module that I have ever seen mentioned in these forums. If there is another specific mod or type of mod that causes the problem, I must not be using it cuz I never have had any problems leaving the mods in when I reinstall.

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I rarely use mods, and hadn't really thought about why, but this thread made me think about it.

The point above about playing from on high applies to me, and that's certainly part of it. For example uniform textures... I really couldn't care less. I never even notice. If the Russians were wearing Japanese uniforms I'd be fine with that.

I also find searching the mod sites a bit of a chore. Not to disparage the fine and valuable service to the community these sites provide, but actually finding the thing I want is not always easy. The only mods I search out for every title are UI mods and sometimes sound mods. If mod packs were more comprehensive I might just do. But I have no desire to download + install, farm buildings, then roads, then trees, dead cows, individual vehicles, sky boxes, uniforms, machine gun animations and so on.

Then I factor in the fact that I have installed say CMBN on three or four different machines through the years and I just can't be bothered to re-mod my installs, since it doesn't really matter to me in the first place. I don't play Combat Mission for the graphics of course :)

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15 hours ago, 37mm said:

Nope, well not by us, the minimap resolutions are hardcoded & there's no way to change them... the game just converts any higher resolution minimap mods back down to the hardcoded resolution.

However, as the games have been released over the years the minimaps have improved somewhat...

So CMBN has mostly 16x16 mimimaps with a few 64x64 miminmaps for common terrains.

CMRT features fewer 16x16's, more 64x64 minimaps & the first [tagged] 128x128 minimap.

CMSF2 is near entirely 64x64, alongside several 128x128's.

Thanks for the explanation. Won’t worry about making new minimaps for BN, phew ...

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16 hours ago, 37mm said:

Nope, well not by us, the minimap resolutions are hardcoded & there's no way to change them... the game just converts any higher resolution minimap mods back down to the hardcoded resolution.

However, as the games have been released over the years the minimaps have improved somewhat...

So CMBN has mostly 16x16 mimimaps with a few 64x64 miminmaps for common terrains.

CMRT features fewer 16x16's, more 64x64 minimaps & the first [tagged] 128x128 minimap.

CMSF2 is near entirely 64x64, alongside several 128x128's.

Nice to know. What is the reason to conserve this difference among titles? I would think with the E4 upgrade, they could have chosen the optimal size compromise, and just apply that to all the E4 upgraded games.

I suppose the 16x16 tiles are the washed out terrain for in the distance. Though I remember it sometimes renders all terrain 'washed out' for a brief time, whenever there is a framerate hick-up or something. Sounds like manual mipmapping https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mipmap.

 

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14 hours ago, Kevin2k said:

Nice to know. What is the reason to conserve this difference among titles? I would think with the E4 upgrade, they could have chosen the optimal size compromise, and just apply that to all the E4 upgraded games.

I suppose the 16x16 tiles are the washed out terrain for in the distance. Though I remember it sometimes renders all terrain 'washed out' for a brief time, whenever there is a framerate hick-up or something. Sounds like manual mipmapping https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mipmap.

 

My observation is based upon examination of the brz files within each game not actual experimentation... the minimaps are indeed used for the low-res distant views.

Kieme (as well as others) observed that the minimap resolutions were hardcoded & couldn't be modified (although their texture/colour could be) years ago.

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On 9/20/2020 at 4:57 PM, Offshoot said:

So I prefer to play with a consistent visual style, which you aren't going to get with mods unless everything has been modded to the same style.

That's my stance as well. Aside from some very, very minor user interface modifications that I created myself, I run all the CM2 titles as-is with the default textures and sounds. 

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On 9/21/2020 at 5:55 PM, Kevin2k said:

Nice to know. What is the reason to conserve this difference among titles? I would think with the E4 upgrade, they could have chosen the optimal size compromise, and just apply that to all the E4 upgraded games.

I suppose the 16x16 tiles are the washed out terrain for in the distance. Though I remember it sometimes renders all terrain 'washed out' for a brief time, whenever there is a framerate hick-up or something. Sounds like manual mipmapping https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mipmap.

 

I carried out an experiment on the 128x128 mini bitmaps (which come with CMSF2) today... it appears that 16x16 is the standard mip-map resolution across all CMx2 game engines.

The 128x128 bitmaps merely provide a very large scale pattern over large stretches of terrain.

 

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On 9/21/2020 at 9:29 AM, 37mm said:

So, in fact, the worst case scenario is "having a bit of a fright & then having to restart the game".

What?  You mean my USMC T-55M Anti-Aircraft Platoons weren't a real thing?  :o

This is not a joke BTW, it's just one real example of what can happen with a script mismatch.....But it breaks nothing, the game works as normal, it's just really strangely labelled.

Edited by Sgt.Squarehead
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Personally I love mods. Aris' vehicles, Lucky Strike's BN scenery etc.  The thread was started about terrain mods, so Lucky Strike's are perhaps more on-theme.

I've not had a problem yet with any mods and if you install one at a time you should have a fairly good idea what's causing a problem if something does go wrong.  Patching hasn't been an issue either.

But I agree, do what you like to do, it's your choice and it's just a game (but a good one).

Edited by Vacilllator
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On 9/30/2020 at 5:27 PM, 37mm said:

I carried out an experiment on the 128x128 mini bitmaps (which come with CMSF2) today... it appears that 16x16 is the standard mip-map resolution across all CMx2 game engines.

The 128x128 bitmaps merely provide a very large scale pattern over large stretches of terrain.

 

Nice find! Indeed when looking the ground-mini tiles, like a 64x64 pixel one, it seems to hold a pattern of 4 by 4 tiles of 16x16 pixels each.

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this is bit silly, you can go back and forth its just folks personal choice,i used to mod everything but with the modders understandably being bit burnt out etc example being CM-italy, i don't like to mix the modded with the unmodded. i have the terrain and sounds and affects etc. but all vehicles are vanilla which is refreshing in away, as the default details are really good and clear, easy to see. 

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