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Bridge bugs are back


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I didn't know it'd gone. So I've been obsessing about waypoint discipline. Does this mean I didn't have to?

And I've just started the MG module. Please tell me it's not an issue on those huge bridges.

 

 

(Did get a tank stuck in some rough ground the other day. Not bogged, not immobilised, tracks green; wouldn't go anywhere)

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On 9/23/2020 at 9:19 AM, rocketman said:

I have started to make an extensive test in the editor that I will post more on in the coming week or so. My intention is to get a group of volunteers to try my test and document weird bridge interaction and bugs. Then we might get to the bottom of this problem once and for all. The test is made in FB and will have one version for US vehicles and one for German.

Yeah, I'll raise my hand. I've had an on and off issue in beta testing that someone else couldn't duplicate, so I'd be interested in whatever test you come up with. Anything that narrows down the issue is helpful. Documenting what is included in the test is key so that we can do some tracking as to what causes or doesn't cause problems.

Dave

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I'd say the odds are pretty high that the game's lead programmer already knows exactly what causes this bridge bug everyone here is talking about. It's been an issue for the entirety of the 6 years or so I've been playing these games. My guess is that it is just too difficult to fix the issue at its core, or that it's simply (to BFC) not worth the time and resources it would take to finally fix it.

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I always thought that this bug related to narrow bridges but in one of the SF2 Task Force Thunder missions I encountered it on a wide highway bridge. Tried with a number of different vehicles but just got the "rubber band effect" about halfway across. Interestingly, I moved the cursor slowly across the bridge and found that at the point where the vehicles stopped I was getting an "impassable" sign as if I was trying to move the vehicle over the river below. This may explain why the vehicles would move no further. Would be interested to know if anyone else has noticed this on any of their bridge problems

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I hear ya, Rocketman. We know they can solve the bug for specific scenarios and maps though, right? Because, IIRC, they have done just that. So that's the good news.

What has not been forthcoming, however, is a general solution to the problem... one that precludes the bug's manifestation in the first place.

Why does it matter, then, if they can find the general solution? Because third party scenarios would be much less likely to get any special treatment (or perhaps any treatment at all?) under the "fix the bridge bugs one at a time" approach.

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54 minutes ago, Hilts said:

I always thought that this bug related to narrow bridges but in one of the SF2 Task Force Thunder missions I encountered it on a wide highway bridge. Tried with a number of different vehicles but just got the "rubber band effect" about halfway across. Interestingly, I moved the cursor slowly across the bridge and found that at the point where the vehicles stopped I was getting an "impassable" sign as if I was trying to move the vehicle over the river below. This may explain why the vehicles would move no further. Would be interested to know if anyone else has noticed this on any of their bridge problems

Interesting, well spotted. I will look for that in future cases. Do you happen to have a save to share?

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46 minutes ago, rocketman said:

Interesting, well spotted. I will look for that in future cases. Do you happen to have a save to share?

No I don't anymore but it was mission 13 "Night Stalkers." I have just cease-fired my way to it to get you a save and believe it or not my vehicle went straight across without any problems! Nor did I observe the "impassable" sign. So it appears that the bugs could be entirely random. If this is the case then I doubt Battlefront will ever be able to fix it.

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21 hours ago, Hilts said:

No I don't anymore but it was mission 13 "Night Stalkers." I have just cease-fired my way to it to get you a save and believe it or not my vehicle went straight across without any problems! Nor did I observe the "impassable" sign. So it appears that the bugs could be entirely random. If this is the case then I doubt Battlefront will ever be able to fix it.

That sounds like a mission from a campaign. Which and for which game? 

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On 9/26/2020 at 9:56 AM, sttp said:

I'd say the odds are pretty high that the game's lead programmer already knows exactly what causes this bridge bug

There are tons of idle and rampant speculation in this thread. I have a high degree of confidence that Charles does have a very good idea how the code for bridges works and what its limitations and short comings are. I also have a high degree of confidence that there is no single bridge bug that he is hiding or pretending he has fixed or cannot fix or <insert any other speculation you guys can come up with>. So, feel free to continue to speculate if you like but it it is for sure a) wrong and b) a waste of time.

How do I know this? Because I have logged many bridge problems both of my own finding and from this board. They have all been given fixes. The major mistake people make is thinking there is one bug with bridges. There is not. What is there is some complex code that has lots of corner cases and is sensitive to changes in one place having unforeseen effects that might need more fixing.

What @rocketman proposes - investigating and finding examples that can be given to Charles to investigate and fix - is a good thing. I look forward to seeing the results. And yes the geometry of the map elevation, terrain choices and road and building placement all factor in.

 

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Good lord.... Should have predicted someone would take offense.

Either the bug can be fixed at its core but hasn't yet been, or it can't be fixed at its core. There is, logically speaking, no 3rd option.

So thanks for basically confirming what I said.

I guess we can infer from your message, then, that BFC's position is that the bug is just too complex to be fixed at its core. Okay then. So people can continue submitting (or re-submitting) individual instances of the bridge bug, and maybe they'll be fixed some day.

Seems pretty straightforward. 

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15 hours ago, sttp said:

Good lord.... Should have predicted someone would take offense.

Who me? No offense. I think @rocketman has the right idea. I am hoping that others will help him out. No offense to be taken. Unless you are referring to my pointing out the time you are wasting speculating about stuff you have no idea about. In which case I'm still not offended. :D

15 hours ago, sttp said:

Either the bug can be fixed at its core but hasn't yet been, or it can't be fixed at its core. There is, logically speaking, no 3rd option.

So thanks for basically confirming what I said.

Sure there is a third option - I laid it out. You can choose not be believe me that is your perogative. I don't really care other than it could detract from work that @rocketman is doing and that would be #sad.

15 hours ago, sttp said:

I guess we can infer from your message, then, that BFC's position is that the bug is just too complex to be fixed at its core. Okay then. So people can continue submitting (or re-submitting) individual instances of the bridge bug, and maybe they'll be fixed some day.

Hey I don't actually speak for BFC and I have not seen the code I'm just reporting my opinion from what I have observed. And giving you guys a bit of a hard time for being so whiny. :)

Yes, call out bugs when you find them. Better yet, organize around @rocketman's effort to go find some. That's a good thing (tm).

 

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Ok guys, just did a trial test and in a couple of turns I caused seven (!) teleportations from under a bridge to its top. Just like that. First observation that causes it is road under a bridge with a clearing that comes close to the tank to get through. The other is if a vehicle drives to close to a pillar and with the waypoint line through it. So I'm optimistic about this type of test getting somewhere. Will release in the coming days for those who want to participate.

Here is the basic test area. Will explain more later on.

3a9NaaF.png

Edited by rocketman
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