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I despise even seeing forest objectives because the context for them is always poor. Who cares about 100m square capture in the middle of a forest? The enemy can have it and when they emerge from the forest in a few weeks from depletion of rations and ammunition or just fear of what the Partisans will do to them then you can capture the wood. Otherwise what sensible Commander would send men into such a place? To capture the enemy's supply of birch trees??? 

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10 hours ago, SimpleSimon said:

Who cares about 100m square capture in the middle of a forest?

I guess forests or woods become objectives precisely because they contain enemy troops - they do seem to crop up in the history books from time to time...

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It occurs to me that in the scenario that prompted me to post this, I would have definitely got a better result if I'd said, "Sod this. They can keep those two objectives. I'll settle for the farm and a nice cup of tea when we're done."

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On 8/6/2020 at 4:20 PM, Bulletpoint said:

They don't penetrate that much farther though. Woods in CM are really good bullet sponges.

Even the magic force shield CM trees will not stop small arms area fire causing casualty . There are many times that the first time I have a visual contact with enemy, is I found their casualties from Area Fire.    And more important, the small arms fire suppression effect is still there , so area fire will be essential when your assault team move close for the kill. You may find enemy take cover on the ground while your assault team take their aim or toss a grenade.

 

On 8/6/2020 at 4:28 PM, Erwin said:

All I can say is that I had the opportunity to try many different tactics when repeatedly playtesting scenarios and this AREA FIRE tactic worked the best in most situations (vs the AI).  Area Fire will penetrate beyond visual range and that's what is needed here - to suppress enemy that one cannot see (and they cannot see you). 

Of course if playing H2H, your human oppo can Area Fire at you if he gets any kind of sound contact as you approach his position.

and some cunning human opponents could combine Area Fire and Withdraw command.  Pause and AF 30 seconds , withdraw two action spots after that. 

15 hours ago, c3k said:

I've learned to NEVER go into the woods after PPsh-armed Soviets. Ever.

I agree with ya. 

It is non sense to send your troops to face a dozen barrels of PPSh.  However, there are many scenario designers love to push the player to do the mission impossible.  In that case, I would split my Germany squad to two teams.  The LMG carries a lot of 7.92mm, so they stay behind , make several LMG teams concentrate area fire here and area fire there. Another team with Squad Leader's SMG slowly move forward with cautious (Hunt is preferred), hopefully they will catch the Soviets AI take cover on the ground. 

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I’ve found once you locate the enemy in woods - ideally a sound contact - moving your troops forward in bounds using area fire ahead of them often suppresses them enough to get close and use grenades. Or they break and run. The 251/9 are also really useful in supporting this role by using area fire. Take it slow. 

Edited by George MC
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8 hours ago, Chibot Mk IX said:
On 8/6/2020 at 10:20 PM, Bulletpoint said:

They don't penetrate that much farther though. Woods in CM are really good bullet sponges.

Even the magic force shield CM trees will not stop small arms area fire causing casualty 

Sure, never meant to say area fire into forests can't be effective. What I'm saying is that unless you can put a target marker very close to the enemy contact, your bullets won't be able to penetrate that much farther. Don't expect to be able to "hose down" a deep area of trees by targeting along the edge.

Depending also on tree type and density of course.

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Assaulting a well defended position is never going to be easy without some sort of support. Forests are no different. The question is: what support do you have for this assault?

Unlike urban terrains, forested terrains do not provide significant overhead protection. Firing artillery at them is like shooting fish in a barrel. No artillery? Try to outmaneuver and surround the forested area. Either avoid confrontation, or form a cauldron.

Easier said, than done. Forests provide excellent concealment. Try to carefully probe areas outside the forested area with infantry, while AFVs and weapons are on overwatch. Try to provoke the enemy into opening fire at your troops, at arms length. Once you have identified their positions, bring your heavy-hitters to bear.

I do not think there's a magic way of tackling dug-in defenders without a few serious force-multipliers.

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