Any tactical level boardgames played by CM owners?

[Hister]

Received my first 3 ordered titles today. A happy day.

[Vacillator]

21 minutes ago, Hister said:

Received my first 3 ordered titles today. A happy day.

Which ones were the first 3?  I may have lost the plot in all of the posts .  Initial thoughts on what you got?

[Hister]

12 hours ago, Vacilllator said:

Which ones were the first 3?  I may have lost the plot in all of the posts .  Initial thoughts on what you got?

Haha, yeah, no wonder, I was shelling you guys with boardgames.

I got Silent Victory, D-Day at Peleliu and The Doolittle Raid. Only opened Silent Victory - my wife have given a green light to open that one and that one alone as a reward to me for cleaning up the garage. There are two more day -long things I will do around the house and for each I get to open another game. Fun, useful arrangement, haha. Also makes the whole arrival more valuable due to accumulated positive tension. 

So I opened it and loved the content and then she came and I explained her the brief history of US submarine warfare in the Pacific and how it relates to this game. She said: "Oh but rhis is horrible, you can die in the submarine in this game!?" Hehehe. We went over the components, the medals, the historic captains and showed her where you put punched counters and she went: "Oh,  I wanted to throw away those plastic covers!" She thought my newly arrived counter trays were just some fillers for the games to stay in the box. Thanks (insert any diety you worship) she didn't! 

 

 

[ratdeath]

I played a bit ASLSK #1-2 a few years go, want to do that again.

There is a Pacific module (self contained) for ASLSK: ASL Starter Kit #4 PTO
https://www.multimanpublishing.com/tabid/58/CategoryID/11/ProductID/368/Default.aspx

Unfamiliar with ASLSK? It's a light version of ASL on it's own or to learn the basics for the real deal

 

[Hister]

9 minutes ago, ratdeath said:

I played a bit ASLSK #1-2 a few years go, want to do that again.

There is a Pacific module (self contained) for ASLSK: ASL Starter Kit #4 PTO
https://www.multimanpublishing.com/tabid/58/CategoryID/11/ProductID/368/Default.aspx

Unfamiliar with ASLSK? It's a light version of ASL on it's own or to learn the basics for the real deal

 

Added it on my to study list. Am hesitant to get tactical level boardgames though.

[slysniper]

I use to play all the old stuff from Avalon Hill with ASL being my Love, with ownership of most of their modules in that and most of their other war games also.

But once close combat and combat missions came out,  my love for board gaming really began to stop. I sold my ASL stuff and held on to all the operational and strategic games. But don't find the desire to play them much.

The rules are too complex for most people to try and pick it as a game to play against most.

 

But I will put in the suggestion of the Conflict of heroes series. My kids gave me Storm of Steel - kursh 1943 a few years back as a present.

I will say, A much better design than ASL in that the Rules  are simple and not hard to understand and can be explained to someone else pretty quickly. High quality Board and units.

It does a very good job of dealing with and having the feel of battle at the tactical level.

So I feel good about having it in my closet  for when the world starts coming to a end and I have no electrical power. I have something to still spend my time on.

 

I dont know if I would consider it great as a solo game, just for the fact there is cards that are being used by the players, so there is a factor there that is missed unless playing h2h

 

 

[Hister]

52 minutes ago, slysniper said:

I use to play all the old stuff from Avalon Hill with ASL being my Love, with ownership of most of their modules in that and most of their other war games also.

But once close combat and combat missions came out,  my love for board gaming really began to stop. I sold my ASL stuff and held on to all the operational and strategic games. But don't find the desire to play them much.

The rules are too complex for most people to try and pick it as a game to play against most.

 

But I will put in the suggestion of the Conflict of heroes series. My kids gave me Storm of Steel - kursh 1943 a few years back as a present.

I will say, A much better design than ASL in that the Rules  are simple and not hard to understand and can be explained to someone else pretty quickly. High quality Board and units.

It does a very good job of dealing with and having the feel of battle at the tactical level.

So I feel good about having it in my closet  for when the world starts coming to a end and I have no electrical power. I have something to still spend my time on.

 

I dont know if I would consider it great as a solo game, just for the fact there is cards that are being used by the players, so there is a factor there that is missed unless playing h2h

 

 

Storm of Steel has a solo expansion - you might want to get it for when electeicity is out. I am only interested in Conflict of Heroes Guadalcanal for when the solo expansion comes out if ever. Not sure still if Old School Tactical system surpases it though. 

I will defenitely put more time in studying tactical boardgames and decide if I should get me a tactical one and which one of these I will get. Most likely none but we shall see. 

[Vacillator]

7 hours ago, Hister said:

I got Silent Victory, D-Day at Peleliu and The Doolittle Raid. Only opened Silent Victory - my wife have given a green light to open that one and that one alone as a reward to me for cleaning up the garage. There are two more day -long things I will do around the house and for each I get to open another game. Fun, useful arrangement, haha. Also makes the whole arrival more valuable due to accumulated positive tension.

There's nothing quite like opening a wargame box and sifting through the contents.  Even if you have to earn it first, but as you say it can be enhanced by having to wait.  Enjoy it and let us know how you get on with the games

[slysniper]

I played through about six battles that it provided, then did some of my own to see how well the game did with certain match ups.

then , put it aside, I want to play some h2h with it, but I have only one son out of my kids that I might convince to do that with me and being he is married with 3 kids. Finding the time for such things is not a common event.

[slysniper]

Anyway, I played it enough that I was impressed by how such a simple system did a good job of portraying a complex thing.

Where as, anyone that played ASL well and knew all the rules  and how to use them. Deserved a collage degree. I wore out my chart chards multiple times, it was a constant grind to go through all the charts just to have a dice roll.

[Hister]

2 hours ago, Vacilllator said:

There's nothing quite like opening a wargame box and sifting through the contents.  Even if you have to earn it first, but as you say it can be enhanced by having to wait.  Enjoy it and let us know how you get on with the games

It is indeed a very special immense joy! Especially when the components are made so good - GTM has some top notch stuff going on for them. Will be some time before I can play them but will do, thank you. 

 

16 minutes ago, slysniper said:

I played through about six battles that it provided, then did some of my own to see how well the game did with certain match ups.

then , put it aside, I want to play some h2h with it, but I have only one son out of my kids that I might convince to do that with me and being he is married with 3 kids. Finding the time for such things is not a common event.

Maybe you can trick your son somehow to come or play the game on the vassal - no trickery needed for the vassal.

 

12 minutes ago, slysniper said:

Anyway, I played it enough that I was impressed by how such a simple system did a good job of portraying a complex thing.

Where as, anyone that played ASL well and knew all the rules  and how to use them. Deserved a collage degree. I wore out my chart chards multiple times, it was a constant grind to go through all the charts just to have a dice roll.

I still haven't found anyone who would play Conflict of Heroes, Combat Commander and Old School Tactical, all 3 boardgame systems and tell me what he thinks of each. I know tasted differ but soem general outlines for each compared to other could be given. 

 

Thank you for your input. 

[slysniper]

A little update on Conflict of heroes, Storm of Steel - Kursh 1943.

My Son now works from my house also, so we now have time to play a game during lunch.

So guess what we are playing. played 4 Scenarios so far.

 

If you can find someone to play against, then this is the best wargame I have ever played that is a board game.

The concept and rules are designed for head to head play and it brings in plenty of fog of war and with the mechanics of the game. plenty of uncertainty as to what to expect from your units.

If you can accept good and bad luck, its just creates a fun aspect in the play.

 

One example, my Son brought two hidden squads out of hiding, crested a hill and was point blank to two of my squads in a gully. he knowing it was a risky move before he did it. 

I then opened fire on his units, all I needed was a 6 or better with 2 dice to put some type of hurt on him. I then added two CP points to the attack (they are valuable and he did not think I would use them for this attack), meaning all I needed was a 4 or more to get a pin type result or a 8 or better to just kill him. 

Needless to say, I was grinning from ear to ear in that I was going to make him pay for a stupid move.

I then role a 3 and he is yelling in joy and I in pain. but we both laughed, made a story line about how the sudden shock of seeing enemy troops emerging at point plank range put my men in panic mode and they were not aiming as they fired at the enemy onslaught .

 

I thought for sure that was going to cause my loss in the game, and it has made it very hard but I have manage to bounce back on that flank and gain control once again and cause him equal losses. So the game showed me that even bad luck did not wreck good tactics in that having other units well placed allowed for me to make that loss at least pay off in the long run as a likely amount of casualties for both sides.

 

But the game takes turns and twist as to who might have the advantage and there is no certainty about anything until  one side finally gets a few positive events in a row and get more of a commanding presence.

Anyway, the only board game that I have ever played that has created excitement with how the odds are calculated and executed in the dice role and how damage is also uncertain.

Also in the fact of how simple the roles are determined and it takes only one role to get the results, the game flow is very fast and engaging most of the time.

 

 

[Kuderian]

I second @slysniper. Conflict of Heroes is so easy to learn but has deep tactical depth. And everything from the artwork to the chits is top notch quality. Go for  the 3rd editions. And the solo module is co designed with John Butterfield, one of the team behind the legendary Avalon Hill game Ambush!

Do not dismiss Memoir' 44 though as it is, like the above, a joy to play with ingeniously simple rules and wait for it, toy fecking soldiers! And there are numerous games out there using a similar  system (Command & Colors series from GMT).

I have Combat Commander  and the ASL starter kits as well but what you gain in realism is at the cost of complexity.

[xIGuNDoCIx]

For me I play both ASLSK (Advanced Squad Leader Starter Kit) which is most of the fun of full ASL without the serious rules bloat IMO.  I also really enjoy Multiman Publishings "Tactical Combat Series" or TCS for short which is a great platoon level tactical combat system that is both easy to learn/play.  TCS also has many games in the series covering all the theaters of WWII.

MMP Tactical Combat Series

 

[Erwin]

It's a beautifully made and looking cardboard game. 

It's odd however, that back in the 90's when many other games like AMBUSH etc were available, the ultimate dream was to one day be able to have a computer handle all the rules and calculations/die rolls etc, and (a complete pipe dream in those days) have a 3D sim in which one could move digital miniatures around a gorgeous 3D map.   

[xIGuNDoCIx]

17 minutes ago, Erwin said:

It's a beautifully made and looking cardboard game. 

It's odd however, that back in the 90's when many other games like AMBUSH etc were available, the ultimate dream was to one day be able to have a computer handle all the rules and calculations/die rolls etc, and (a complete pipe dream in those days) have a 3D sim in which one could move digital miniatures around a gorgeous 3D map.   

I absolutely get that however there is something special about playing your opponent face to face and watching his dreams and aspirations fade away after you crush his forces!

[Erwin]

1 hour ago, xIGuNDoCIx said:

playing your opponent face to face and watching his dreams and aspirations fade away after you crush his forces!

It helps to have a vivid imagination when you play online. 

 

 

 

[Jock Tamson]

The more you try to simulate, the more you suck out the game.  It is a tightrope for an entertainment product.

Advanced Squad Leader does not try to be a simulation, and is better for it.  There is risk, randomness and decision making within a framework of phases all of which encourage a narrative to emerge.  The inconsistencies that you get with CM are not so jarring when their equivalents occur in a boardgame - because "rules" (although in ASL there is likely to be a rule for it). 

For example CM goes to great lengths (compared to other computer games) to simulate the effects of different levels of C2.  And yet you, as the God-like player, can order every unit on the map with LoS to an action square to fire on it, even if only one unit has actually spotted a contact.  The AI, of course, will not do this.  This kind of situation is where, for me, CM can trip up over itself as it walks the line between allowing players freedom to do things, versus providing a framework of rules within which both player and AI operate.  That kind of even ground within a set of rules is where, for me as a wargamer, a lot of the fun in a game is.  I appreciate the situation is more nuanced in multiplayer.

The lockdown has encouraged me to look at formats I would have considered quite lo-fi a few years ago.  There is so much software out there that tries to simulate stuff, it has become boring for me.

So I have been picking up the ASL Starter Kit after many many years away from boardgames, and goofing around with VASL.  I have been playing Lock n Load Digital which has a nice impulse system.  I've played a lot of Field of Glory 2.  Sad to say I have found them more fun than CM.  Maybe there will be something in the next iteration of CM that sucks me back in.

Edited September 4, 2020 by Jock Tamson

[Hister]

What a great thread this has become. Thank you for sharing your points of view/experiences, guys!

[StieliAlpha]

On 9/4/2020 at 7:20 PM, Hister said:

What a great thread this has become. Thank you for sharing your points of view/experiences, guys!

I did not read your thread since a while now. How is it going with your board games?

I started about 45 years ago with AH‘s Battle of the Bulge. Then came Midway. Thereafter perhaps 150 others. Back in the 90‘s, I sold a few and I sort of lost track.

[Hister]

1 minute ago, StieliAlpha said:

I did not read your thread since a while now. How is it going with your board games?

I started about 45 years ago with AH‘s Battle of the Bulge. Then came Midway. Thereafter perhaps 150 others. Back in the 90‘s, I sold a few and I sort of lost track.

I have at the moment Shogun (aka Ikusa) Empire of the Sun, Sekigahara, Silent Victory, D-Day at Peleliu, Enemy Coast Ahead: The Doolittle Raid, Julius Caesar, Pacific Victory: Pacific theater of WW2 and Napoleon: The Waterloo Campaign. The last 3 I made myself from the Columbia Games spare parts and user published map modifications which I printed on neoprene mats and modified player cards which in the end netted me bigger maps 'cos the originals were too small for ease of play and I saved a few bucks too doing so. 

 

Have other board games but do not fit into the wargames cayhegory. Have a bunch of GMT games preordered and a big whish list of games I wanna have. 

 

Haven't ordered any tactical boardgames as of yet since CM games scratch that itch already. 

[StieliAlpha]

37 minutes ago, Hister said:Pacific Victory: Pacific theater of WW2 and Napoleon: The Waterloo Campaign. 

If you care for Napoleonic games: Have a look at the OSG series. Say „grand tactical“ games, where one counter equals a Brigade or a Division and a game covers one campaign. Some of them, like „Napoleon at Bay“, are extremely good. Most are quite manageable, others get pretty big...

[wadepm]

If you like the ACW then check out the Great Campaigns of the American Civil War series from MMP.   https://www.multimanpublishing.com/Products/tabid/58/CategoryID/21/Default.aspx

 

[Lethaface]

Nice threat indeed.

I always liked to play risk and stratego when I was a kid (although even for that it was hard to find opponents willing to play more than once ). Was also intrigued by board wargames, especially with toy soldiers and cannons etc, on a large table. But in the end never really played board wargame stuff, instead I bought C&C for a bloody hefty 50 (?) guilders back in the day (I must have been around 14 years old or so). Must have picked up quite some empty beercrates at the backdoor of the supermarket only to bring them in again for the deposit

I do still play boardgames with family sometimes, but I think it will be difficult to convince them into playing a wargame especially if there are such complex rules (probably I was too fanatic with Risk when I was young hehe). My younger brother was more successful in luring the family into his dragon / monster table top games. Those also work with cards and some dices for attacks iirc. I do enjoy the social aspect of boardgames with family/friends.

Some of the games posted here look quite interesting, but don't really see myself having the time and or energy to pick something like this up for solo play. Especially with all the CMx2 battles I still plan to play along with a vast steam library full of barely played games.

On 9/4/2020 at 5:22 PM, Jock Tamson said:

The more you try to simulate, the more you suck out the game.  It is a tightrope for an entertainment product.

Advanced Squad Leader does not try to be a simulation, and is better for it.  There is risk, randomness and decision making within a framework of phases all of which encourage a narrative to emerge.  The inconsistencies that you get with CM are not so jarring when their equivalents occur in a boardgame - because "rules" (although in ASL there is likely to be a rule for it). 

For example CM goes to great lengths (compared to other computer games) to simulate the effects of different levels of C2.  And yet you, as the God-like player, can order every unit on the map with LoS to an action square to fire on it, even if only one unit has actually spotted a contact.  The AI, of course, will not do this.  This kind of situation is where, for me, CM can trip up over itself as it walks the line between allowing players freedom to do things, versus providing a framework of rules within which both player and AI operate.  That kind of even ground within a set of rules is where, for me as a wargamer, a lot of the fun in a game is.  I appreciate the situation is more nuanced in multiplayer.

The lockdown has encouraged me to look at formats I would have considered quite lo-fi a few years ago.  There is so much software out there that tries to simulate stuff, it has become boring for me.

So I have been picking up the ASL Starter Kit after many many years away from boardgames, and goofing around with VASL.  I have been playing Lock n Load Digital which has a nice impulse system.  I've played a lot of Field of Glory 2.  Sad to say I have found them more fun than CM.  Maybe there will be something in the next iteration of CM that sucks me back in.

 

Personally still have much fun with CM and probably because I've never played those older games can't seem to grasp why people would prefer hex grids etc.

However, each to his own and I recently came across this announced Micropose title, 'Second Front'.

The gameplay seemed quite deep and interesting to me (even though hexes), thought it might be to your liking based on your post.

 

[Hister]

Yeah, my first tabletop wargame per see was Risk too but I was 7 years old when I first got in contact with the computer games so that platform was where I got my first taste of the blood.  Only returned to boardgaming after a friend lurred me into them a few years ago. Moving board pieces around activates other brain sectors then by playing pc games, I can really feel the change.

 

Loving both mediums with plenty of unplayed or barely played Steam and other games in the library too.

Got the Second Front already on my radar. Spoke with the developer - it is gonna be an arcady CM so not that sure I wanna have it but waiting for reviews to make up my mind.

 

Thank you for chimming in.

 

Off to sinking some more Japanese boats I go now - dog is tired from the forest stroll and games, wife went to the beach and the house is all mine now... Silent Victory here I come!

Edited September 16, 2020 by Hister