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What the actual hell is this game?


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19 minutes ago, SimpleSimon said:

Yeah I just loaded it up again to make my dream scenario with the location come true in the editor and I do remember now that it is explicitly a hospital. I'm still going to allow one of the F-18s in support though for use at player discretion with perhaps a demerit or points off for using it on the hospital.

Just so you know, bombing hospitals is generally considered to be a bad thing, if not a blatant war crime, regardless of what is actually in the hospital. CNN would have a field day...

Extra-CM considerations aside, the F-18 is a Navy aircraft. While it’s possible for Army units to receive support from the Navy, they are far more likely to receive support from an Air Force aircraft such as an F-16, F-15E, or an A-10. 

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MOUT operations in CMx2 titles have always been pretty bloody if not executed without exceptional care. I can not make a statement regarding your specific situation, but what i ve observed in the coup

Thing with Combat Mission I've learned is it punishes impatience and rewards thoughtful planning. My very first game I played I thought I could just wing it and successfully rush into a city and take

I have (very) vague memories of the CMSF original but the CMSF2 update was certainly different. I gave it a quick spin... ... the Syrians have a lot of advantages & one bad mov

30 minutes ago, SimpleSimon said:

the Syrian Garrison is plenty large enough to warrant the Hospital as a fair target

Agreed.  Yes, it's a hospital, but with all the 40mm and 50 cal being used, no doctor or patient would be safe.  Best to assume they've been moved to the basement(s).

Nice video.

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1 hour ago, IICptMillerII said:

Just so you know, bombing hospitals is generally considered to be a bad thing, if not a blatant war crime, regardless of what is actually in the hospital. CNN would have a field day...

This is a very good point. I think the Syrian Force count in the Hospital is large enough to warrant it as a legitimate target, but the presence of civilians and especially patients inside it would definitely make a direct attack on it pretty distasteful in any context. Ain't war hell? 

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Extra-CM considerations aside, the F-18 is a Navy aircraft. While it’s possible for Army units to receive support from the Navy, they are far more likely to receive support from an Air Force aircraft such as an F-16, F-15E, or an A-10. 

Yeah I figured that, I was going to highlight the F-18 as "loaned" from the Navy because Army Aviation assets are up with the SBCTs further inland.  

EDIT: So the Briefing states the Syrians occupied the building aware that its status as a Hospital would discourage the use of aerial bombing. No mention is made of whether its occupied by civilians or not but if the Syrian Commander is ruthless enough he might well chose to keep hostages in the facility to make that point. However, his force is very large and there are visible defensive fortifications around the structure. Perhaps i'll score destruction of the main building very harshly and encourage external objectives more since i'm enlarging the map. I've added a 3 story building down the road from the entrance (a "sniper house" the Defenders have been using to harass traffic) and low ground opposite the main entrance the Americans might want to move men inside of to discourage the escape of a such a large force or catch deserters. 

Realistically if such a situation presented itself I doubt either the original designer's scenario or my scenario would happen at all. Too much shooting around a large number of vulnerables with enormous potential for a humanitarian disaster. Just keep the place bottled up convoys will be routed down other routes etc. 

Edited by SimpleSimon
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2 hours ago, SimpleSimon said:

This is a very good point. I think the Syrian Force count in the Hospital is large enough to warrant it as a legitimate target, but the presence of civilians and especially patients inside it would definitely make a direct attack on it pretty distasteful in any context. Ain't war hell? 

Very much agree. Just to be clear I wasn’t trying to be snarky and kick up heated conversation, just pointing it out for context as to why the scenario is designed the way it is. 
 

2 hours ago, SimpleSimon said:

Yeah I figured that, I was going to highlight the F-18 as "loaned" from the Navy because Army Aviation assets are up with the SBCTs further inland. 

Very fair point, and this does happen in reality pretty regularly. I just had to point it out for grog reasons. 😁

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...but with all the 40mm and 50 cal being used, no doctor or patient would be safe. 

For the coming CMRT module I did a scenario with Russians tasked with liberating a slave labor camp. Now that I think of it, that's another building complex behind high walls and (theoretical)  friendlies trapped in the fire zone. Scenario title - "Arbeitslager". Keep a lookout for it.

Hah! I just remembered an ooooold CMSF1 3rd party scenario of mine from years ago. "Lone Star Shopping Plaza". Drunk Marines take over a Texas shopping mall and (drunk) Stryker Inf is called in to clear them out. Taking place on July 4. Another building complex behind high walls and (theoretical)  friendlies trapped in the fire zone! I'm starting to sense a pattern. :P

Edited by MikeyD
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That slave labor camp scenario sounds awesome. I'm gonna watch out for it. I wanna try that Texas shopping mall one too lol :D

It would be interesting to see more hostage-situation type scenarios. Something like the Beslan school hostage crisis in Russia in 2004. The school had 30 or so terrorists and hundreds of hostages inside, and the Russians assaulted and stormed the building with special forces and army units using tanks, APCs and thermobaric weapons and it still took them hours to clear the building while taking heavy casualties in the process.

A complete catastrophe IRL but I wonder if you could design a CM scenario to reflect something like that. It's not possible to trigger something to blow up using the editor right? I don't really know much about using the editor. But you could penalize the player very heavily for damaging any buildings. Most of the time when I see preserve objectives it's just a couple of buildings here and there on a huge map, like a mosque, that you can safely ignore or bypass. I don't recall seeing any scenarios that are entirely built around one big preserve objective. Or maybe a "don't cross this line" trigger? Forcing you to adopt different tactics like laying siege to the building at a distance, posting snipers all around the place hoping to pick off enemies without risking a big assault and so on.

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1 hour ago, MikeyD said:

Hah! I just remembered an ooooold CMSF1 3rd party scenario of mine from years ago. "Lone Star Shopping Plaza". Drunk Marines take over a Texas shopping mall and (drunk) Stryker Inf is called in to clear them out. Taking place on July 4. Another building complex behind high walls and (theoretical)  friendlies trapped in the fire zone! I'm starting to sense a pattern.

That thing is truly a bloodbath!  :o

@Bozowans  I have Lone Star Shopping Plaza if you want a copy.....It's not quite so easy for the player as the other scenarios mentioned here.  ;)

Edited by Sgt.Squarehead
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1 hour ago, Bozowans said:

A complete catastrophe IRL

Absolutely. They ended up killing something like half of the hostages, I think 150+ children because they literally blasted the school with thermobarics. Beslan came to mind earlier in this discussion but I refrained from mentioning it as to not derail the thread. Though it certainly is more relevant to the discussion now. 

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14 hours ago, Boche said:

Well that wasnt too bad! Bad luck with that squad but apart from that didnt go too badly. Quick question what sound mod was that again? Cheers!

Basically an updated version of the Heaven & Earth soundscape... it's still WIP but the version from a few weeks back did come with the Syrian modpack I released.

10 hours ago, Heinrich505 said:

That was a really nicely done video.  I thought the lighting and the rendering was particularly effective, and made parts of it seem almost photo-realistic.   We were definitely there in the middle of the firefight with the guys.

It was a small map & I've recently replaced my big screen TV/monitor so I thought I'd try out the 4k resolution... that, combined with Barabaricos movie shaders (and with just a touch of reshade), is probably what you're seeing.

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On 8/13/2020 at 6:27 PM, Sgt.Squarehead said:

That thing is truly a bloodbath!  :o

@Bozowans  I have Lone Star Shopping Plaza if you want a copy.....It's not quite so easy for the player as the other scenarios mentioned here.  ;)

If you still have a copy yes I would love to try it!

 

On 8/13/2020 at 8:16 PM, Sgt.Squarehead said:

Oh yes it is!  :D

How many do you want & how big do you want them?

lol how do you do that?

I've wanted to make my own scenarios for a long time now but it's hard to find the time for it. It seems like playing around in the editor can be an entire game in itself, and there are still a million other scenarios and campaigns I haven't even tried yet.

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Thing with Combat Mission I've learned is it punishes impatience and rewards thoughtful planning. My very first game I played I thought I could just wing it and successfully rush into a city and take over...that was a bad mistake. Lost most of my armor and my team was wiped out. You have to be careful with how you approach a situation.

Also, if battles were so easy to conquer, why does it take on average 250,000 bullets for every enemy killed IRL: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-forced-to-import-bullets-from-israel-as-troops-use-250000-for-every-rebel-killed-314944.html

It's not easy. War is freaking hard. And Combat Mission does a good job exhibiting that difficulty.

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12 hours ago, ZackTactical34 said:

Thing with Combat Mission I've learned is it punishes impatience and rewards thoughtful planning. My very first game I played I thought I could just wing it and successfully rush into a city and take over...that was a bad mistake. Lost most of my armor and my team was wiped out. You have to be careful with how you approach a situation.

Also, if battles were so easy to conquer, why does it take on average 250,000 bullets for every enemy killed IRL: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-forced-to-import-bullets-from-israel-as-troops-use-250000-for-every-rebel-killed-314944.html

It's not easy. War is freaking hard. And Combat Mission does a good job exhibiting that difficulty.

Couldn't agree more.

Go slow and recon, recon, recon.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I do think the accuracy for the units needs to improve, I had Marines shooting down at a stationary target around 230 meters away and it took more than 10 rounds with an M16a4 to hit him while they were prone. If I recall correctly the units were not exhausted and barely moved into position from a LAV, with a clear line of sight it should have taken 2-4 rounds at the maximum to hit the stationary target.
I can see a poor sightline at 400 meters taking a few hundred rounds, mix an oversized fire team element and I would put around a thousand rounds of small arms into a small building while moving closer to clear it unless you had a 50 cal with SLAP rounds you can probably use a box or two.

The article posted makes sense, training on ranges before deployments, ranges on deployment, and suppressing a target with sustained fire, training alone take a few hundred thousand rounds. The most brass casings I've ever seen was in 29 palms, fun times

Edited by Saint_Mattis
Grammar
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