Battlefront Poll Updated

[Raging Al]

1.  1939 to 1940 for sure, and maybe allow for some Spanish Civil War action as well 

[Jesser]

I feel like something in the far future with aliens would be cool.

I know that's not gonna happen, but a man can dream...

[Ivan Zaitzev]

1939 to 1940 for me, but would love "Combat Mission: Graveyard of Empires", start with the Soviet Invasion just like CM:A and then a module for the American Invasion, then British.

[Historian]

So it seems like Combat Mission Fulda, or rather CMRR (Combat Mission Red Rhine, for the famous Seven Days to the River Rhine plan) is the most upvoted.

I'd like to see it set in 1983. Seems like that'd be the best time, with US soldiers just transitioning to PASGT, no M1A1 yet. It's the time when M60s are still in regular use, where the US Army is  below its peak, and the Reds are just as capable on paper.

Primary modules should be CENTAG (Base, US Army/Soviets), BALTAP (Denmark, Britain, West/East Germans, Poles, VDV), and AFNORTH (Norwegians, Swedes maybe, USMC Iceland/Norway, Naval Infantry).

Content from this can then cross over to CMTE: Combat Mission Thirty-Eighth, a CMFB-style game set with the same US units, ROK, and DPRK units. Perhaps this one can include the M1A1 and be set in the later 80s.

The second upvoted I've seen and would love is 'One Engine', but the only thing I'd really want out of one engine is a DCS-style Unified Modular Engine, where WW2, Cold War, and Modern can all be played simultaneously, with integrated maps and system modding. Fight Stryker vs Panther, Shermans versus BMPs, storm Normandy as the modern 101st.

Perhaps add in the ability to call/recall transport vehicles. Rather than leave ten trucks at the map's edge, send them off from transit points at the map edge, and maybe even call in helicopters the same way. Conduct SOF missions: infiltrate, engage, and extract from the hot zone. Drop paratroopers on-map, and organize them for the assault on the objective. In that vein, make squad organization more flexible: merge shattered units into still-effective elements to regain the initiative, and even reoccupy bailed-out weapons like MGs, Mortars, and AT guns.

[John1966]

The WWII bits we haven't got yet. Those in the poll plus PTO.

[Silkwraith]

This is my opnion:

No 1:  Expansion of Combat Mission Games to VE-Day on Both Fronts: 1944-1945

No 2:  Enhanced Modding Support

No 3: One Engine - CMx3

No 4: . Blitzkrieg: 1939-40 

Thanks

[MikeyD]

We have our dreams but BFC is looking it:

• Is the topic researchable in depth?
• Is the conflict compatible with the game engine?
• would it generate sufficient sales to cover the cost of development?
• Can the topic hold their interest through the long development process?
• Is dedicating resources to idea A worth postponing the development of idea B?

BFC can still surprise us. Think back, CMFI came like the bolt out of the blue. Nobody was expecting to see an Italian Theater title right after CMSF. I can't recall if the Ukraine title came as a shock or not. Maybe people were expecting a modern war European theater title to show up - just not that one. It was less of a surprise than it would have been because events on the ground overtook BFC's planning. If it weren't for Putin players would have been asking 'WHY a Ukraine conflict, of all places?'

[Probus]

26 minutes ago, MikeyD said:

We have our dreams but BFC is looking it:

• Is the topic researchable in depth?

Many modders would start many projects.  Some would stick some would not.

• Is the conflict compatible with the game engine?

Mods would find all the areas that are weak that need programming support (or deeper modding capability).

• would it generate sufficient sales to cover the cost of development?

Very limited development to allow an (alpha) version of the engine that accepts limited modding.

• Can the topic hold their interest through the long development process?

I have to admit, I don't know if modding could help here, but some mods may just spark new interests.

• Is dedicating resources to idea A worth postponing the development of idea B?

See number

BFC can still surprise us. Think back, CMFI came like the bolt out of the blue. Nobody was expecting to see an Italian Theater title right after CMSF. I can't recall if the Ukraine title came as a shock or not. Maybe people were expecting a modern war European theater title to show up - just not that one. It was less of a surprise than it would have been because events on the ground overtook BFC's planning. If it weren't for Putin players would have been asking 'WHY a Ukraine conflict, of all places?'

@MikeyD,  You make great points.  Now imagine modders had just a tad more ability to add content (free labor ) and the risks you point out become much more mitigate-able. (I took the liberty of inserting comments above).

Honestly, when I bought Black Sea a few weeks ago the Ukrainian conflict did not play into my decision.  But I'm a child of the Cold War.  I'm also the kind of guy who would want to see not only how well the latest Russian tanks stand up against M1A1s, but also how long a platoon of M1A1s would last against a battalion of Tigers and Panthers.

 

[Vacillator]

I would have thought BFC will have looked at the numbers/value of sales for WW2 and modern titles and will be roughly guided by that (including MoD type customers of course).  I'd love to see the figures but not sure they will want to disclose...

Anyway you can probably guess what my preference would be (already registered in the poll), but I may dabble my toes in the modern stuff at some point...

As a fairly new arrival I am of course already presented with more content than I can shake a stick at .

[kraze]

I've been waiting for a CMBS module for 5 years now...

[Probus]

6 hours ago, Vacilllator said:

As a fairly new arrival I am of course already presented with more content than I can shake a stick at .

Not enough time in the day!

[Probus]

1 hour ago, kraze said:

I've been waiting for a CMBS module for 5 years now...

Holy cow!  That's just too long if CMBS was a successful title.  I can't help think how much more successful these games would be with a good marketing campaign, but that doesn't come cheap.  So I guess its the job of the community to get the word out there so they can focus their $$$ on the programmers.

[Bulletpoint]

5 hours ago, Probus said:

I can't help think how much more successful these games would be with a good marketing campaign, but that doesn't come cheap.  So I guess its the job of the community to get the word out there so they can focus their $$$ on the programmers.

They're getting a LOT of free publicity from the good youtubers putting videos out there. People who are interested in military history will get the videos in their suggested feed, and then I suspect a lot of those will end up buying one or more games. That kind of publicity was something that small games companies could only dream of before the internet.

[kraze]

On 7/28/2020 at 5:18 AM, Probus said:

Holy cow!  That's just too long if CMBS was a successful title.  I can't help think how much more successful these games would be with a good marketing campaign, but that doesn't come cheap.  So I guess its the job of the community to get the word out there so they can focus their $$$ on the programmers.

It has nothing to do with CMBS being unsuccessful, but with whole Combat Mission being too unknown. Because people waited for that CMFI expack for about as long. And will wait for CMFB module for 5 years too. They have way too many separate titles but not enough people to produce content people actually WANT to buy. I WANT to BUY. There's demand, but Battlefront cannot fulfill it.

I still believe Battlefront keeps shooting itself in the foot by staying away from Steam or EGS. Yes they will take the cut. But that will give a huge enough boost to sales to counter that.

Look what wonders that has done to DCS World. In 2013 or so that game was barely anything more than a basic A-10C sim and a bunch of arcade planes on a single map. Then they went on Steam. Now it's a huge library with dedicated teams per plane and terrain.

Hot damn, Battlefront teamed up with Slitherine and got themselves a real military contract because Slitherine knows how to sell such things.

Word of mouth is not enough when you force people to buy an expensive game from a "Web 1.0" website.

Edited July 31, 2020 by kraze

[Anonymous_Jonze]

27 minutes ago, kraze said:

It has nothing to do with CMBS being unsuccessful, but with whole Combat Mission being too unknown. Because people waited for that CMFI expack for about as long. And will wait for CMFB module for 5 years too. They have way too many separate titles but not enough people to produce content people actually WANT to buy. I WANT to BUY. There's demand, but Battlefront cannot fulfill it.

I still believe Battlefront keeps shooting itself in the foot by staying away from Steam or EGS. Yes they will take the cut. But that will give a huge enough boost to sales to counter that.

Look what wonders that has done to DCS World. In 2013 or so that game was barely anything more than a basic A-10C sim and a bunch of arcade planes on a single map. Then they went on Steam. Now it's a huge library with dedicated teams per plane and terrain.

Hot damn, they teamed up with Slitherine and got themselves a real military contract because Slitherine knows how to sell such things.

Word of mouth is not enough when you force people to buy an expensive game from a "Web 1.0" website.

I think steam could possibly help but there's so many games on there now it could get overshadowed. There's a ton of "hidden" games on there that are never being promoted. But with that being said... You know how I found out about this series? Searching on google for a Star Wars Battlefront review video and clicking on the wrong link. 

[Vacillator]

1 minute ago, Anonymous_Jonze said:

You know how I found out about this series? Searching on google for a Star Wars Battlefront review video and clicking on the wrong link. 

Agreed .  I got introduced via Google looking for pictures of a Jagdpanther for a signature on another website.  Any way that works I suppose .

[kraze]

33 minutes ago, Anonymous_Jonze said:

I think steam could possibly help but there's so many games on there now it could get overshadowed. There's a ton of "hidden" games on there that are never being promoted. But with that being said... You know how I found out about this series? Searching on google for a Star Wars Battlefront review video and clicking on the wrong link. 

Current Steam recommendation algorithm is much better compared to how it was years ago. I've learned about rough gems (with great potential) like U-Boat and Invasion Machine from it. Same goes for Afghanistan '11. I regularly learn about new content for Graviteam Tactics and its spinoffs from it as well. Plus people are actively looking and asking for good combat simulation stuff on Steam, many don't want to buy stuff they hear about for the first time from a place they don't trust.

Won't get overshadowed at EGS because there's zero competition for CM/no overflow of trash "games" right now.

Also your example is good, but there's another one like that on Steel Beasts forums. A dude learned about an existence of Combat Mission because in his army they've started using it for training (yep, the brits from that video). I mean at least a notable chunk of just as niche Steel Beasts playerbase is full of potential sales right there because simulation fans are very cross-genre as long as it's a realistic game. But they don't know because the only way to know right now is pure luck.

I myself first read about Combat Mission (Afrika Corps to be precise) in a local gaming magazine (because at that time Battlefront apparently had a publisher doing exposure things) - but didn't play it due to physical copies of the game being extremely rare in the region (it was 2003 or so, that weird thing that had you download game stuff over dial-up connection called Half-Life 2 was still a good year away). I then got into Combat Mission Shock Force when Battlefront was still having deals with third party publishers through a word of mouth from a DCS World/FSX (of all things) fan - which only proves one of my above points.

Edited July 31, 2020 by kraze

[com-intern]

3 hours ago, Anonymous_Jonze said:

I think steam could possibly help but there's so many games on there now it could get overshadowed. There's a ton of "hidden" games on there that are never being promoted. But with that being said... You know how I found out about this series? Searching on google for a Star Wars Battlefront review video and clicking on the wrong link. 

There are a lot of games but it does give you decent ability to find similar games. I found Command Ops 2 on Steam and before then I didn't know it existed. Since that time I've spent around $100 on it.

[John1966]

On 7/31/2020 at 11:43 PM, kraze said:

But that will give a huge enough boost to sales to counter that.

 

Steam actually tried to flog me Ultimate Fishing Simulator the other day. You cannot help be be impressed by the sheer ambition. It was really cheap too. But my willpower held.

[Bulletpoint]

11 minutes ago, John1966 said:

Steam actually tried to flog me Ultimate Fishing Simulator the other day. You cannot help be be impressed by the sheer ambition. It was really cheap too. But my willpower held.

Come on, you lost the opportunity to catch a completely fictional fish...

[John1966]

2 minutes ago, Bulletpoint said:

Come on, you lost the opportunity to catch a completely fictional fish...

And at a low, low price...

[slysniper]

Well, If nothing else, this polling method is a good way to get a bunch of like votes for yourself.

Will need to keep that in mind if I need a self image improvement.

But I just gave you 3 or 4 votes - yes, very slow as to getting to some of these threads

[kraze]

Well what do you know. Looks like Battlefront has finally seen the light.

[Sgt.Squarehead]

On 7/17/2020 at 1:34 AM, Ivan Zaitzev said:

1939 to 1940 for me, but would love "Combat Mission: Graveyard of Empires", start with the Soviet Invasion just like CM:A and then a module for the American Invasion, then British.

I'd buy that for a dollar! 

[LongLeftFlank]

On 7/16/2020 at 5:35 AM, MikeyD said:

8. Back when Steve was pondering doing something with China I had suggested the 'near future' Chinese invasion of Taiwan. Taiwan has some nifty M60 family armor (with cool camou.) But Steve was cool to the idea, said the conflict would be over in no time were to really happen.  Taiwan's half again larger than Israel with three times the population. it seems as viable a theater of operations as any other.

Here's a weird set of picts. A Taiwanese M60A3 with... logs fitted to the sides and turret? Or am I misinterpreting the picture?

I just spent several hours today pinning out a theoretical PLN Marine Corps coup de main against Magong Island, the largest in the Penghu (Pescadores) group.

Magong, whose port was the key Japanese navy base and launch point for their 1941 invasion of the Philippines, sits about 30km offshore of the southern half of Taiwan. It would need to be neutralized or occupied by the ChiCom PLA as prelude or part of any invasion.

Cursory research indicates the Penghu group is defended by 2 infantry brigades (likely reservists only activated in wartime) and the 503 Armoured Brigade with 60-70 locally modified M60s ("Yonghu"), amtracs, M113s and MLRS artillery. Part of the elite 101st Amphib Recon Battalion ("Frogmen") is also deployed there. At a guess, say a max of 4000 defenders in a position to pick up rifles in the event of a surprise attack?

.... So if Chicom troops could somehow* get ashore in force, with some mech of their own, they would still face some heavy slugging, with air-sea superiority being intensely contested.

Most of the old coastal forts, which include fake cement naval guns and Kyu-go tanks, are today in ruins and mere tourist curiosities. But even though Google has 'blanked' some of what are obviously military installations, it's pretty obvious that there are a lot of tunnels (the island is volcanic basalt). So it would likely be a tough nut to crack, even for elite forces with heavy fire support.

* The 'getting ashore' is, of course, the tough part, and it is why Taiwan remains self-ruled today. But let's not do geopolitics here please....

For CM purposes, I'd posit a surprise attack a la 'Red Storm Rising' (Iceland) or the 1918 Zeebrugge raid, with a modified container ship being deliberately stuck fast into one of the small fishing ports (Shanshui, or wherever water depth might allow such a thing), disgorging a PLN Marine regiment including a few light AFVs and a robust selection of AT, artillery and AA assets. Simultaneously, an airliner 'emergency lands' at Penghu Airport with 100 commandos, to neutralize the Taiwanese helo and AA assets, secure key road junctions and even raid the nearby TAF HQ. By dawn, the eastern half of the island and both airstrips fall under PLA control with the ChiNat defenders in disarray as the air and naval battle begins in earnest.

Edited April 3, 2021 by LongLeftFlank