Erwin Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 4 hours ago, Holdit said: in an idea world, BF would release one game including everything between 1936 and 1953 - next week... no, make that tomorrow...wait..this afternoon... +1 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Probus Posted July 14, 2020 Author Share Posted July 14, 2020 (edited) Started a new Updated Poll topic: Please cast your votes there. Here is a summary of what you'll find: 1. Blitzkrieg: 1939-40 WWII Early war Poland France (also Finland) 2. Barbarossa: 1941-43 WWII Eastern Front Can Combat Mission: Barbarossa to Berlin data be used as sort of an upgrade? Invasion of Yugoslavia Operation Typhoon Case Blue Blau to Stalingrad Warsaw to Moscow (also Finland) 3. Afrika Korps: 1940-43 WWII North Africa Operation Torch, American North Africa Invasion Libya, Egypt, and Tunis 1942-43 4. Expansion of Combat Mission Games to VE-Day on Both Fronts: 1944-1945 End-of-war module that includes Brits, crossing the Rhine and the Ruhr pocket A siege of Budapest for Hungarians Battle for Berlin (East vs West, 1945, 46) 5. Arab-Israeli Wars: 1948–49, 56, 67, 73, 82, and 2006 Israeli War of Independence, 1948-49 Suez Crisis, 1956 Six Day War, 1967 Yom Kippur War, 1973 Lebanon Wars, 1982 & 2006 6. Vietnam War: 1955-75 US Involvement (French Involvement, 1945-54) 7. "Fulda Gap": 1970-90 Europe WWIII 8. "Battlefield Asia": Modern Day USA/NATO vs China USA/NATO vs North Korea China vs India India vs Pakistan (Afghanistan Update) 9. One Engine - CMx3 game performance improvments, graphics improvements, ray tracing, intermediate distance bitmaps additional editor features, dynamic operational campaigns additional gameplay features, coop, LoS tool, visible aircraft 10. Enhanced Modding Support add units equipment functionality ingame OOB editor 11. New Modules more battlepacks for existing titles New Countries for Barbarossa (Bulgaria Hungary Romania Yugoslavia Partisans). Additional modules for Red Thunder Additional modules for CMSF2: Modern Day Syria, Turkey, Iraq CMBS Marines (from both sides) Commonwealth forces and expansion into VE Day for Final Blitzkrieg 12. Surprise me - I'm certain to love it Korea 1950 WW2 Pacific WW1 Horses Edited July 14, 2020 by Probus 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holdit Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 2 minutes ago, Probus said: Started a new Updated Poll topic: Please cast your votes there. Here is a summary of what you'll find: 1. Blitzkrieg: 1939-40 WWII Early war Poland France (also Finland) 2. Barbarossa: 1941-43 WWII Eastern Front Can Combat Mission: Barbarossa to Berlin data be used as sort of an upgrade? Invasion of Yugoslavia Operation Typhoon Case Blue Blau to Stalingrad Warsaw to Moscow (also Finland) 3. Afrika Korps: 1940-43 WWII North Africa Operation Torch, American North Africa Invasion Libya, Egypt, and Tunis 1942-43 4. Expansion of Combat Mission Games to VE-Day on Both Fronts: 1944-1945 End-of-war module that includes Brits, crossing the Rhine and the Ruhr pocket A siege of Budapest for Hungarians Battle for Berlin (East vs West, 1945, 46) 5. Arab-Israeli Wars: 1948–49, 56, 67, 73, 82, and 2006 Israeli War of Independence, 1948-49 Suez Crisis, 1956 Six Day War, 1967 Yom Kippur War, 1973 Lebanon Wars, 1982 & 2006 6. Vietnam War: 1955-75 US Involvement (French Involvement, 1945-54) 7. "Fulda Gap": 1970-90 Europe WWIII 8. "Battlefield Asia": Modern Day USA/NATO vs China USA/NATO vs North Korea China vs India India vs Pakistan (Afghanistan Update) 9. One Engine - CMx3 game performance improvments, graphics improvements, ray tracing, intermediate distance bitmaps additional editor features, dynamic operational campaigns additional gameplay features, coop, LoS tool, visible aircraft 10. Enhanced Modding Support add units equipment functionality ingame OOB editor 11. New Modules more battlepacks for existing titles New Countries for Barbarossa (Bulgaria Hungary Romania Yugoslavia Partisans). Additional modules for Red Thunder Additional modules for CMSF2: Modern Day Syria, Turkey, Iraq CMBS Marines (from both sides) Commonwealth forces and expansion into VE Day for Final Blitzkrieg 12. Surprise me - I'm certain to love it Korea 1950 WW2 Pacific WW1 Horses I can't see why they couldn't knock all that out over a long weekend... (I'd push the PTO higher up the list, but that's just me.) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danfrodo Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 I expect they will go path of least resistance. Early war means nearly entire new OOBs. So I expect we'll see east front 1943, CMBS module, and maybe module for CMFB. Those would be the least disruptive. Then they'll work backwards again to 1942, then 1941. 1939-40 means all new allied OOB, so that probably is a long way off. So in order to not go completely dark for long period of time, I think they'll expand off what they already have in order to get products out that folks will buy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Probus Posted July 14, 2020 Author Share Posted July 14, 2020 23 minutes ago, Holdit said: I can't see why they couldn't knock all that out over a long weekend... (I'd push the PTO higher up the list, but that's just me.) I placed them in semi-chronological order with the coding changes at the end of the list. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Probus Posted July 14, 2020 Author Share Posted July 14, 2020 4 minutes ago, danfrodo said: I expect they will go path of least resistance. Early war means nearly entire new OOBs. So I expect we'll see east front 1943, CMBS module, and maybe module for CMFB. Those would be the least disruptive. Then they'll work backwards again to 1942, then 1941. 1939-40 means all new allied OOB, so that probably is a long way off. So in order to not go completely dark for long period of time, I think they'll expand off what they already have in order to get products out that folks will buy. Maybe. My goal started as just wanting to give some visibility to Battlefront as to what their players want most if they had a choice in the matter. It kinda morphed a bit as I saw how many different things folks wanted (I shouldn't have been surprised). That kinda led to the fact that modding was the only way battlefront could possibly hope to include all the differing content folks wanted. I get the impression from the fans that Battlefront is too conservative to allow modding for fears that 1. it would degrade the quality of their product and 2. cut into future profits. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethaface Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Probus said: Maybe. My goal started as just wanting to give some visibility to Battlefront as to what their players want most if they had a choice in the matter. It kinda morphed a bit as I saw how many different things folks wanted (I shouldn't have been surprised). That kinda led to the fact that modding was the only way battlefront could possibly hope to include all the differing content folks wanted. I get the impression from the fans that Battlefront is too conservative to allow modding for fears that 1. it would degrade the quality of their product and 2. cut into future profits. Nice poll, although I don't think the visitors actually voting is perse a good representation of the full customer base (I did vote ). Regarding modding the nuts and bolts of the game: I just don't see it work for this game. Of course the business model is a very valid aspect as well; they need to make enough money to stay in business. Visuals only modding is imo a good call. Third party developing is, afaik, already possible. For example CMA wasn't done by BF themselves. Someone mentioned the Linux model. Large open source communities behind Linux and other projects are great imo! Some of the best quality and 'sustainable' software comes forth from such initiatives. But I don't see those swarms of developers/companies working on the CM codebase pro bono. Not the same ballpark I'd say. Edit: Such an idea might be great for a 'generic' (war)game engine. A base which can be used for free by anyone wanting to develop a (war)game. Lot's of work though, you'd be (ten) thousands of hours in before even knowing whether all that work will be actually put to use ever at all. Edited July 14, 2020 by Lethaface 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquila-SmartWargames Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Lethaface said: I don't think the visitors actually voting is perse a good representation of the full customer base . I had the same thought Edited July 14, 2020 by Aquila-SmartWargames 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Probus Posted July 14, 2020 Author Share Posted July 14, 2020 1 hour ago, Aquila-SmartWargames said: 2 hours ago, Lethaface said: Nice poll, although I don't think the visitors actually voting is perse a good representation of the full customer base (I did vote ). I had the same thought Best I could do guys. I'm sure there aren't too many visiting trolls to battlefront... Does a wargaming Grognard count as a Troll? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Probus Posted July 14, 2020 Author Share Posted July 14, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Lethaface said: Edit: Such an idea might be great for a 'generic' (war)game engine. A base which can be used for free by anyone wanting to develop a (war)game. Lot's of work though, you'd be (ten) thousands of hours in before even knowing whether all that work will be actually put to use ever at all. If modding was limited to adding equipment ONLY, I think the boost to the community/popularity of the game would outweigh any risks. I just have to keep pointing back to KSP as my example of an overwhelmingly positive experience. (Granted KSP is not about killing virtual people and blowing things up... scratch that... KSP is not about killing virtual people.) EDIT: There are many mods to KSP that add weapons and aircraft, tanks and ship parts and that also turn it from a single player game into a multiplayer game. Chaos did not ensue. Edited July 14, 2020 by Probus Weapons and Multiplayer Mod for KSP 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holdit Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 4 minutes ago, Probus said: If modding was limited to adding equipment ONLY, I think the boost to the community/popularity of the game would outweigh any risks. I just have to keep pointing back to KSP as my example of an overwhelmingly positive experience. (Granted KSP is not about killing virtual people and blowing things up... scratch that... KSP is not about killing virtual people.) I love the KSP tagline: "Failure is always an option..." 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thewood1 Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 12 hours ago, slippy said: As regards modding, if you look at a game like IL-2 1946, you could say modding is the only reason anyone still plays it. The modded game is light years away from the original, and i believe so good in its latest form that it detracts from people buying Il-2 Great Battles the modern equivalent. The base game was released roundabout 2001 i believe, so your talking of a 20 year old game, that due to modding is still being played and does not look out of place alongside more modern titles. But part of the question has to be...how much extra money did the devs make off of that longevity? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquila-SmartWargames Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 My first physical copy of IL2 I bought because of German 3rd party historical addon campaigns. I purchased a second digital copy of IL1946 exclusively for the BAT mod. Similar with countless other games. There are dozen games I would´ve never purchased if there would be no modding coming with them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thewood1 Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 Yeah, but I suspect multiple buys just for modding is not common. I own three copies of CMBO and its not because of mods. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
com-intern Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 16 hours ago, Thewood1 said: But part of the question has to be...how much extra money did the devs make off of that longevity? At this point none because their gone. After the minor disaster that was Cliffs of Dover the series died for quite some time. But I recently bought two copies of IL-2 1946 off of GoG a few weeks ago. Jagged Alliance 2 also. Some devs do release historical data and the tail tends to be pretty long and pretty strong. Especially on Steam since you can gain a sort of steamroll effect. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM Stuff Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 (edited) @Probus ammm disregard my last post !! Edited July 15, 2020 by 3j2m7 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquila-SmartWargames Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 (edited) Also when viewers on my channel ask for recommendation which CM game they should buy, one of the most popular questions they add in is, wether the games come with rich user and mod content. Edited July 15, 2020 by Aquila-SmartWargames 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Probus Posted July 15, 2020 Author Share Posted July 15, 2020 1 hour ago, 3j2m7 said: @Probus ammm disregard my last post !! You take care! There is a poll function built into the KSP forum which uses the same engine. Elvis said it was not in Battlefront's version though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquila-SmartWargames Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 (edited) Another recent example is that there were people telling me that they got into CMSF2 because of the Heaven & Earth mod. If I hypothetically had zero interest in CMSF2´s Middle Eastern modern warfare setting but some interest in the Vietnam/Asian setting, I would buy CMSF2 just for it without thinking twice. I mentioned it several times while playing the Year of the Rat campaign on the stream and it was meant serious. I guess I have a lesser threshold than the average to spent money on wargames but if I assume that for some reason I had no interest in the default content of the other CM titles - which is not the case but hypothetically - but had for whatever reasons interest in user content such as the various mod/campaign projects, I would buy CM games just for them alone. Last week I bought two JTS games primarily in order to get my hands on total conversion mods. Edited July 15, 2020 by Aquila-SmartWargames 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thewood1 Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 But are the JTS mods just graphical? And btw, The Heaven and Earth mod is only graphical, right? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM Stuff Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 6 hours ago, Probus said: You take care! There is a poll function built into the KSP forum which uses the same engine. Elvis said it was not in Battlefront's version though. Agree I reconized the mistakes this is why I delete my last message that you already saw probably ! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
com-intern Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 2 hours ago, Thewood1 said: But are the JTS mods just graphical? And btw, The Heaven and Earth mod is only graphical, right? heaven and Earth mod are only graphical but visuals carry a lot of weight with people. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquila-SmartWargames Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 (edited) 9 hours ago, Thewood1 said: But are the JTS mods just graphical? And btw, The Heaven and Earth mod is only graphical, right? The games allow modification of what I call "hard data" so the JTS mods are not only cosmetical. While it is technicallly correct that HE does not change hard data, calling it only cosmetical would be the biggest understatement I´ve heard alongside it. To everybody that has the slightest interest I recommend to test it out for yourself. Playing the yot Rat campaign in HE was on of the greatest and most unique experiences I´ve had in recent years in CM. It is remarkable what the team achieved despite CM´s modding restrictions. Which brings me to my point: I do not ask the devs to go full 180 degree on CM´s modding friendliness as I understand the reasoning. However I am confident that offering the community at least some more modding options would be a win-win situation for all involved. Edited July 16, 2020 by Aquila-SmartWargames 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thewood1 Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 Being a graphic only mod seems to go agsint the whole point of CM's attractiveness as a wargame. That is historical accuracy in units, actions, and OOBs. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
37mm Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 5 minutes ago, Thewood1 said: Being a graphic only mod seems to go agsint the whole point of CM's attractiveness as a wargame. That is historical accuracy in units, actions, and OOBs. Almost every scenario & campaign ever made for CM (even officially) are semi-historical at best... do not overestimate the historical accuracy of the computer game that you play. I suspect far more people play CM because of the decent 3D graphics & sound (for a wargame), fairly realistic physics &, at least plausible, infantry behaviour than they do because of accurate OOB's... if BFC decided to go back to TACOPS style graphics for CMx3, but increase the OOB accuracy, I can certainly imagine that it would hurt sales. Heaven & Earth is a fantasy & although, technically, the modded aspects are graphics & sound mods only it also comes with unique maps, concepts, content & unit compositions... it very often requires a different playstyle & mindset compared with CMSF2. Either way, it was the best that could be done given the modding limitations. Some of us have been waiting almost twenty years for CM-Vietnam (or CM-WW1) and not everyone has survived that wait. A lot of what was done could only have been done with the help of people like @sbobovyc & @Aquila-SmartWargames making & figuring out how to use the modding tools... which I think is part of the point. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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