Erwin Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 Ok, so we are concluding that unless there is some good reason why one wants a vehicle to move slower, one may as well use FAST all the time for normal travel regardless of terrain or weather as the AI will pick the appropriate speed and there is no penalty re bogging/immobilization when moving faster than SLOW. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckdyke Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 4 hours ago, MOS:96B2P said: @womble once said, "Movement speed has no demonstrated effect on bogging/immobilization rates." There are many threads on this topic. I agree with womble. Vehicles will slow down of their own accord for some kinds of terrain the berm remaining from bocage demo, crossing any obstacle they can crush, and rough terrain like light woods. I don't think the AI driver changes speed for mud. However mud might bog / immobilize the vehicle no matter the speed. Rule of thumb do what you would do in real life. I would like to see if you go 'Fast' the AI would select roads, 'Quick' terrain where you can travel 'Quick', 'Slow' for terrain with boggy terrain. 'Hunt' turret is open, closes when the enemy is spotted and engages. But how the individual plays require a library of actions you could edit depending on your need. Something like editing on the fly. I stick to my rule of thumb, cross a creek deflate some air and put the car on 4WD in Combat mission just go slow. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckdyke Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 17 hours ago, MOS:96B2P said: @womble once said, "Movement speed has no demonstrated effect on bogging/immobilization rates." There are many threads on this topic. I agree with womble. Vehicles will slow down of their own accord for some kinds of terrain the berm remaining from bocage demo, crossing any obstacle they can crush, and rough terrain like light woods. I don't think the AI driver changes speed for mud. However mud might bog / immobilize the vehicle no matter the speed. I think we must look at the experience and competencies of the crew. Conscript and green who drive a tank for the first time in their lives. For an MBT like the Abrams and a T55 are very different requirements. Experienced driver or a driver who ends up waist deep in the water. I can speak of experience lol. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckdyke Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 On 1/18/2021 at 3:44 AM, Erwin said: What about crossing wet/muddy ground? Again I used to order SLOW. But, I wonder again if that is necessary or if the AI automatically adjusts to the best/safest speed. On the other hand perhaps one can order a faster speed if one is willing to take the higher risk of immobilization(?). But, if that is the case, then why can't one order a tank to crash thru a fence or wall at a higher speed and take a higher risk? Try that in FB "Chaos at Ferme Diedenhoven'' By carefully plotting on slow and around the muddy patches none of my vehicles bogged down. Replayed the scenario for that reason. If I see a situation in which I would put my own vehicle in lower gear I would go slow in CM. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 (edited) Yes, that is what I always used to do - until: @womble once said, "Movement speed has no demonstrated effect on bogging/immobilization rates." There are many threads on this topic. I agree with womble. Vehicles will slow down of their own accord for some kinds of terrain the berm remaining from bocage demo, crossing any obstacle they can crush, and rough terrain like light woods. I don't think the AI driver changes speed for mud. However mud might bog / immobilize the vehicle no matter the speed." Edited January 21, 2021 by Erwin 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOS:96B2P Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 7 minutes ago, Erwin said: Yes, that is what I always used to do - until: <Snip> 6 hours ago, chuckdyke said: Try that in FB "Chaos at Ferme Diedenhoven'' By carefully plotting on slow and around the muddy patches none of my vehicles bogged down. Replayed the scenario for that reason. If I see a situation in which I would put my own vehicle in lower gear I would go slow in CM. The useful / helpful thing that chuckdyke is doing is going around the muddy patches. I also go around them when possible but generally at Fast. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckdyke Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 8 minutes ago, MOS:96B2P said: The useful / helpful thing that chuckdyke is doing is going around the muddy patches. I also go around them when possible but generally at Fast. The only thing 'Slow' is good for in other words. Is to keep formations or coordinate movement with infantry units or others. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckdyke Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 We are getting away from the topic which is 'Stop Getting Shot At'. The MG42 had a go at a Hellcat traveling at full speed. He was unaware of a security detail nearby. His firing at the Hellcat gave his position away. I have another item for my DOPE list AKA the 'Sniper's Bible'. Three hundred yards fireteam of veterans spotted the MG42 and dealt with it. Started the turn with a cover arc and relied on the game engine. On WeGo you can make a catalog of actions on RTS you can't. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Squarehead Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, MOS:96B2P said: I also go around them when possible but generally at Fast. I only ever use fast on road & when I do, I plot the 'racing line', as you know from Police reaction times in Chiraq City! I had so much fun in that one.....I think it's finally time for the 'flipside', real world be damned! Edited January 21, 2021 by Sgt.Squarehead 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vacillator Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 (edited) 7 hours ago, Sgt.Squarehead said: I only ever use fast on road Sadly if you have a busy road, and I'm thinking KG Peiper and similar situations here, you really can't plot fast for everyone as it turns into a nightmare traffic jam, with vehicles going off in all directions or just blocking the road. It becomes a bit of a task with mixtures of fast, move, slow, hunt up front if needed, pause for various times . And you may also have dismounts or mounts going on. Or am I doing it wrong? Edited January 21, 2021 by Vacilllator 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOS:96B2P Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 19 minutes ago, Vacilllator said: Sadly if you have a busy road, and I'm thinking KG Peiper and similar situations here, you really can't plot fast for everyone as it turns into a nightmare traffic jam, with vehicles going off in all directions or just blocking the road. It becomes a bit of a task with mixtures of fast, move, slow, hunt up front if needed, pause for various times . And you may also have dismounts or mounts going on. Or am I doing it wrong? Sounds right for the situation you describe. I use Fast for tactical situations when moving from cover to cover where I suspect I'm in LOF. For road march movement that I think is not in LOF Move command works very well since faster vehicles will not overtake slower ones. Pause is also useful to control traffic. Once the vehicles get up to the front and join the fight (so are in areas where OpFor has LOS/LOF) they go tactical and generally use Fast. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjkerner Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 I use Move like MOS does, but put a 5 sec pause on the second vehicle in column, 10 sec on 3rd, 15 on 4th, etc. Different vehicles types in the same column can screw things up mightily, though! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckdyke Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 Become a traffic cop and impose the speed limits as you see fit. AI slows you down anyway if you go too fast and slow doesn't prevent bogging. We learned something today. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckdyke Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 10 hours ago, MOS:96B2P said: Sounds right for the situation you describe. I use Fast for tactical situations when moving from cover to cover where I suspect I'm in LOF. For road march movement that I think is not in LOF Move command works very well since faster vehicles will not overtake slower ones. Pause is also useful to control traffic. Once the vehicles get up to the front and join the fight (so are in areas where OpFor has LOS/LOF) they go tactical and generally use Fast. Last question: Which speed can you plot if your vehicle carries passengers like in RT & FB or does the engine also automatically adjust its speed? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 2 hours ago, chuckdyke said: Which speed can you plot if your vehicle carries passengers like in RT & FB or does the engine also automatically adjust its speed? It would be very surprising if the engine takes into account vehicle loaded weight. But, I guess someone will want to test. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckdyke Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 (edited) 58 minutes ago, Erwin said: It would be very surprising if the engine takes into account vehicle loaded weight. But, I guess someone will want to test. I don't like to sit on a tank going 50km/h cross country. Never done it but imagine it is a little bumpy. Done it this afternoon playing FB they didn't complain or became nervous Edited January 22, 2021 by chuckdyke 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 56 minutes ago, chuckdyke said: I don't like to sit on a tank going 50km/h cross country. I thought the game automatically slows down tanks carrying riders. Try running a tank with no one on it and a tank with riders next to each other and see if they go the same speed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 28 minutes ago, IanL said: I thought the game automatically slows down tanks carrying riders. Interesting... Never noticed b4. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckdyke Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 9 hours ago, IanL said: I thought the game automatically slows down tanks carrying riders. Try running a tank with no one on it and a tank with riders next to each other and see if they go the same speed. I tried it in BF 'A War without Mercy' no difference. Before, I would do what I would do in real life. But not anymore. In Battle for Normandy crossed a river with my M4's Scenario: 'Huzzar'. Out of four M4's 2 got bogged only then I changed the travel speed to 'Slow' he started moving again No 2 got out of trouble by reversing and found an alternative route. The Fast Mode in CM means as fast as possible if there is a need to go slow it does it automatically. I changed the travel mode when a unit got into trouble and it seemed to work. If you just leave it, they tend to become immobilized. Seems to be a formula which needs Alan Turing to crack it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 2 hours ago, chuckdyke said: No 2 got out of trouble by reversing and found an alternative route. The Fast Mode in CM means as fast as possible if there is a need to go slow it does it automatically. I changed the travel mode when a unit got into trouble and it seemed to work. If you just leave it, they tend to become immobilized. Believe it or not, we've been discussing these sorts of phenomena for literally two decades, first with CM1 and now with CM2. Last I recall (and unless an update has changed things) BF definitively told us that there is no way to get out of an immobilization probability by reversing, or praying, or anything. This is one of those psychological things where we tend to project our own something or other onto the situation. Likely it's the same thing with speed and % of bogging. We see what we want to see and and make an interpretation based on what we want to believe... Statistically significant tests would have to be undertaken to prove otherwise. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckdyke Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 27 minutes ago, Erwin said: Believe it or not, we've been discussing these sorts of phenomena for literally two decades, first with CM1 and now with CM2. Last I recall (and unless an update has changed things) BF definitively told us that there is no way to get out of an immobilization probability by reversing, or praying, or anything. This is one of those psychological things where we tend to project our own something or other onto the situation. Likely it's the same thing with speed and % of bogging. We see what we want to see and and make an interpretation based on what we want to believe... Statistically significant tests would have to be undertaken to prove otherwise. I used the word 'seems' that means my observation is subjective. I will keep a record of it, but I don't go through a wading crossing if I can help it. The observation was 'slow' and 'reverse'. The reason the game engine will slow you down anyway. I can't see anything wrong with manually plotting a slower speed. It is like plotting a direct fire against an identified contact, I found by trusting the game engine the pixeltruppen will engage very successfully. Comes down to personal preferences. Happy gaming. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOS:96B2P Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 On 1/22/2021 at 5:08 AM, chuckdyke said: Last question: Which speed can you plot if your vehicle carries passengers like in RT & FB or does the engine also automatically adjust its speed? The more questions, the more discussion. The more discussion the more ideas we share which helps make an active interesting forum. A tank with riders will allow the plotting of waypoints Quick and Fast however the max speed the tank will actually travel, with riders, is Move. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 59 minutes ago, MOS:96B2P said: A tank with riders will allow the plotting of waypoints Quick and Fast however the max speed the tank will actually travel, with riders, is Move. Now that is interesting... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethaface Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 On 1/23/2021 at 4:24 PM, Erwin said: Now that is interesting... It has been in the manual since CMRT; I think I've known about it since it was released. Quick (and similar for fast): "Restrictions - same as for Move, but fitness and fatigue play a bigger role. Addition- ally, vehicle with soldiers riding on top of them (such as tank riders) cannot move at Quick speed. Vehicles given a Quick order will instead move at a slower speed" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletpoint Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 On 1/23/2021 at 5:00 AM, Erwin said: Likely it's the same thing with speed and % of bogging. We see what we want to see and and make an interpretation based on what we want to believe... Statistically significant tests would have to be undertaken to prove otherwise. This has already been thoroughly tested by @IanL, and I believe we already had this discussion several times 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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