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2 hours ago, Falaise said:

pfffffff
lazy !!! :D
seriously we could use the contribution of other mod makers and by combining the result we could get the biodiversity that is dear to me

Hah, all contributions greatly appreciated - and we haven’t even started on the Italian landscape yet!

I wonder ... do any of the other doodads extra numbers work? Have you tried any of them? Anyone else tried them?

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A little preamble to this taster ...  I grew up in rural Dorset in the south of England where our countryside is not so different than that of Normandy (though the Cider may be a bit stronger!).

... and another That's all I seem to be able to upload for now, so for more look at the DropBox folder linked above ... LS

@benpark So, as I'm quite close now to finishing the bocage textures and finally 🤞 releasing the mod, assuming that no other significant discoveries come to light in the meantime, I checked out what w

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12 hours ago, Falaise said:

I tried but no, otherwise I will have variegated nettles, brambles, ferns

That’s a shame. I did try extra marsh doodads last night whilst I was working on them, they didn’t appear in-game either. So odd that the bocage leaves work. I guess extra bocage textures were something that perhaps BF toyed with when they were first making CMBN.

I have started making extra bocage textures and the results are quite promising so far. Have now got four bocage textures which, combined, do start to make the bocage look more varied.

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I'd guess (having done the same tests)- the difference is that the doodads are billboards, and the other textures do not rotate on-the-fly to match the camera angle.

Why that category is limited is probably due to the large amount of doodads on-screen at once (there are lots of leafy-type textures as well, but they are static, with LoDs for camera pull-back)- some would be great with a dozen different doodad textures, but someone running on an older machine may not be.

This is one of the only cases where the numbers can't be amplified to produce more on-screen textures, so the hedges seem like a good way to progress. Tree leaves may be as well.

The mod looks great- I was able to fire up CMBN for a few minutes last night, and it holds up well, and well together.

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48 minutes ago, quakerparrot67 said:

pictures ?

Things have probably moved on some but there were some nice pics at the start of the thread.  Far better though is to get the mod (there's a link earlier) and have a good look at it in-game.  It's on all the time in my Normandy ❤️.

Rob, I now see that you were in the thread earlier so you may be all over it anyway 😉.

I'm guessing v2 is just around the corner @Lucky_Strike, including lovely new variable bocage?

Edited by Vacilllator
Realising what I was replying to
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yep- following this one for sure.  the mod as released has really transformed the look of the game (not to mention my attempts at screenshots) , and i can't wait to see what the new bocage variations look like  in natural color.   when i  look at mods like this and think about how the game looked when i first got it   (not that it was anything to be ashamed of- i know visuals aren't  bf's focus for the game) i'm just floored.  

cheers,

rob

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...hmmm, would like to see a bocage mixed pictures and effects from @Lucky_Strike and @Falaise must be very interresting, usefull,  and bordering of the reality !

...could be the last that you could doing @Lucky_Strike but this will be your best of your best of , after, «nobody» will asking you to do something...unless...you are yourself not happy with the result ! 

and starting again from a to z ! 😁

JM

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10 hours ago, benpark said:

I'd guess (having done the same tests)- the difference is that the doodads are billboards, and the other textures do not rotate on-the-fly to match the camera angle.

Why that category is limited is probably due to the large amount of doodads on-screen at once (there are lots of leafy-type textures as well, but they are static, with LoDs for camera pull-back)- some would be great with a dozen different doodad textures, but someone running on an older machine may not be.

This is one of the only cases where the numbers can't be amplified to produce more on-screen textures, so the hedges seem like a good way to progress. Tree leaves may be as well.

The mod looks great- I was able to fire up CMBN for a few minutes last night, and it holds up well, and well together.

Thank Ben, I appreciate your comments.

Yeah, I'm pretty certain that the number of doodads was limited for the sake of FPS and game playability back when CMBN first came out. Heck even now, with higher res doodads and foliage, I notice lags and jitters every now and then with a pretty modern GPU. I suspect that the game engine, or rather how the Open GL code is implemented, isn't, or can't be, optimised to match the sheer grunt of modern GPUs without some quite big tweaks.

I'm not so sure that I can add extra tree leaf textures, the texture numbering may preclude it as the trees are already numbered 1 through 5. I may have a quick experiment to see if there are any weird numbers I can use.

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I think you are probably right, but I mainly glean an understanding of Steve and Charles in disassembling their creation, as you do.

There may be something worth trying in resizing things here and there for those stubborn billboards- maybe a trick combo of two+ graphics on one file (sized-up, to take the doubling of the graphics)? That would yield double the plant-graphics, but they would repeat.

The possibilities are endless to experiment, but time is always short.

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7 hours ago, quakerparrot67 said:

pictures ?

 

cheers,

rob

 

I aim to please. I meant to show a with and without ReShade (is without ReShade what you mean by 'natural'?), but I must have changed something 'cos ReShade didn't produce a with and without screenshot like I usually get. It's late so these are all with ReShade - mostly sunny plus a couple in the rain - latter are probably a bit closer to the normal colours in game. These all feature four textures except the last which is repeated for @Warts 'n' all's pleasure 🤩

Low bocage ...

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Tall bocage ...

V09VBQ9.jpg

More Tall bocage ...

Z0aK2KQ.jpg

Close up ...

obr89DA.jpg

Wet bocage, trees hidden ...

5trh3Vt.jpg

More soggy bocage along a lane ...

flXviFw.jpg

 

 

 

Ohh, and Barry Bocage ...

qcE8Wsc.jpg

 

7 hours ago, Vacilllator said:

I'm guessing v2 is just around the corner @Lucky_Strike, including lovely new variable bocage?

Very close my friend!

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7 minutes ago, benpark said:

I think you are probably right, but I mainly glean an understanding of Steve and Charles in disassembling their creation, as you do.

There may be something worth trying in resizing things here and there for those stubborn billboards- maybe a trick combo of two+ graphics on one file (sized-up, to take the doubling of the graphics)? That would yield double the plant-graphics, but they would repeat.

Very true, I spent an age trying to figure out the strange distortions, stretching and scale of the doodads. Even now I don't see the rationale for some of it. Once I've gotten finished with this mod I will take a look at some further experiments. I think for sure there are other things I can do with the textures which might mean looking at the actual 3D models as well.

Also I can't wait to get my grubby hands on your new maps for Ire and Rubble - they look awesome! Modding Red Thunder could take me a few more years!

 

7 minutes ago, benpark said:

The possibilities are endless to experiment, but time is always short.

You got that right!

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4 hours ago, 3j2m7 said:

...hmmm, would like to see a bocage mixed pictures and effects from @Lucky_Strike and @Falaise must be very interresting, usefull,  and bordering of the reality !

...could be the last that you could doing @Lucky_Strike but this will be your best of your best of , after, «nobody» will asking you to do something...unless...you are yourself not happy with the result ! 

and starting again from a to z ! 😁

JM

It hasn't killed me yet. The perfectionist in me learnt to let go years ago, but sometimes he comes back to remind me he's still lurking inside ... 🤪

When I'm done with this you'll be able to mix'n'match the bocage to your hearts content. Just a case of a bit of renumbering/renaming any modded textures following the numbering that we have come up with. Not sure how many bocage textures you can have, but I suggest keep going until it breaks the game 😉 

 

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11 hours ago, Warts 'n' all said:

And now Ladies and Gentlemen I'd just like to do a little song for @Lucky_Strike

His name was Lucky, he was very plucky.

And he called all the rozzers "ducky" etc etc

Enough of that rubbish, I'm off to tackle "Wittmann's Demise", which will be a great looking experience, even if not a winning one.

 

His name was Warty, he was quite naughty

With yellow feathers in his hat and a dress cut down to there

He would merengue and do the cha-cha ...

This is just a bit too silly - I shall now refrain from posting pictures of the plastic one.

 

@benpark @Falaise I did a quick experiment with trees and bushes leaves textures to see if each individual type could have several textures for leaves, and surprisingly they can! I'm not sure what I can do with this, maybe have one type of tree that has less leaves - might be more useful for autumn or spring to have trees with some leaves and some bare branches. There are caveats though: I noticed when I tried with a strong colour, the engine seems to display the trees and bushes with just one, or the other colour, until the camera moves quite close, then it can flick between the two colours or do other odd stuff. It may work differently on different GPUs or with different colours. I didn't notice it when I had natural leaf colours, so will have to take another look, perhaps with bare branches.

nUZuXf0.jpg

Oaky plane tree, notice the oak leaves top let and middle right

3bY5zYR.jpg

Oaky plane tree, quite well mixed

Ch6XL1u.jpg

Oaky plane trees, but only the front two, the rest show just plane

lm545nW.jpg

Oaky plane trees, should all be mixed but very strange

WTaWNYD.jpg

A two tone bush

The numbering for the bmps was: tree-1-leaves 2.bmp and bush-2-leaves 2.bmp. I presume tree-1-leaves 3.bmp etc could also work, but I didn't try.

Anyway an intriguing discovery (at least to this foliage nerd 🌳).

 

 

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@Lucky_Strike It is a little known fact that before he changed his name to "Manilow", Bazzer was in a cabaret duo with his twin brother Beny Bocage called "Les garcons de Saint-Lo". After Petula Clark's success at the Paris Olympia, she was able to get them a residency at Madame Fifi's Revue Bar, in Old Compton Street. Sadly, it wasn't long before the rozzers began raiding the place, and Beny died at West End Central, after slipping on a wet floor and smashing his bonce on the cell door, only seconds after P.C. Eyat Wolfenden had put away his mop and bucket. ... Allegedly.

Of course they weren't the only "celebs" to have problems there. The Bee Gees' "Massachusetts" was originally entitled "West End Central" based on the notorious Maurice and Lulu drugs bust. But their record company turned it down for legal reasons, and they had to change both title, and lyrics. 

Edited by Warts 'n' all
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Fantastic stuff.

I can see lots of uses like apples on some branches, some not, or thinning/destroyed foliage- subtle, but that's where the ground-players (like my own self) notice things.

One terrain type that seems missing when I make forested areas is a "thicket"- the dense underbrush that exists at the edge of newer-growth forests. Tall enough to hinder movement and LoS, but unable to provide much cover. I've taken to using hedges (taller and shorter) to fill this in, but maybe there's a solution with this mix-'em-up method to get a more convincing look.

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3 hours ago, Falaise said:

yes I noticed it and I forgot to report it:rolleyes:
Personally, I mixed your apple tree with the Rambler foliage
Rambler trees are too thin for my taste and your apple tree too dense
with the 2 I got a more realistic average for my taste

200930102452592499.jpg

 

Great stuff. The foliage on my apple tree is from Ez’s which, I think, is a version of Ramblers. I may do a thinned out version of the foliage for trees, bushes and bocage along with some other potential experimental stuff, to make a later addendum to my mod, though for now I just want to get it out the door.

I keep learning new stuff which I’m keen to try but I can’t hold up my mod pack forever!

 

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1 hour ago, Warts 'n' all said:

notorious Maurice and Lulu drugs bust. But their record company turned it down for legal reasons, and they had to change both title, and lyrics.

Did this one involve a Mars bar, or was it a Marathon? (Snickers to you young folk out there).

Amazing what one can learn on here. 

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1 hour ago, benpark said:

Fantastic stuff.

I can see lots of uses like apples on some branches, some not, or thinning/destroyed foliage- subtle, but that's where the ground-players (like my own self) notice things.

One terrain type that seems missing when I make forested areas is a "thicket"- the dense underbrush that exists at the edge of newer-growth forests. Tall enough to hinder movement and LoS, but unable to provide much cover. I've taken to using hedges (taller and shorter) to fill this in, but maybe there's a solution with this mix-'em-up method to get a more convincing look.

Yes there are uses for sure. I need to try with a few variations to see if the strange colour flicking, reappearing and disappearing affects the natural colours as well.

I fully understand your frustration with the lack of thickets. Woods/forest edges are a very underrepresented area (at least visually) in the game. In the real world they are an especially challenging area for LOS largely because of the change from light to dark, both looking out from as well as into. Using trees precludes the placing of bushes in the same spot, but not hedges, so maybe something could be done with the hedge texture and 3D model. I really like your idea of using hedges, but if we mod them it will obviously only work if the hedges aren’t used elsewhere in the map as normal hedges. I do have some new brush doodad textures which add a bit more visual fullness when used with trees in woods, but I’m not certain about things like LOS through them.

I suppose another possibility would be flavour objects, but am I right in thinking these don’t affect LOS or movement?

 

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I think flavor objects are cover, but no concealment. I have a bunch of links saved from way back about it, I'll double check that one. But they would seem...excessive to place in a large forest.

Edit, the link:

Thickets would be a good add to the game engine, overall, a proposed new add- The 2 hedges as they are (and will be, with your mod in place) do well with some additional variation in the other terrain stuff that gets deemed (narrator voice) "appropriate for the scene, based upon weather conditions, and specific situations represented in the actual period terrain" kind of stuff. All the region-specific horticultural knowledge.

I'm enjoying the place-holder color schemes- I always wanted to make a game-wide mod that would replace all/most the sound/dialogue with sayings from 1970's TV shows "MISTAH KOTTAH, I"M HIT". The stuff above would fit right in, jacket included.

Edited by benpark
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