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Fire and Rubble DAR: BFCElvis vs Ithikial_AU - Soviet Side


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There are quite a few areas that have damage to that level, but the entire master map will have varying degrees- otherwise they wouldn't be feasible (loading times, fps). The QB maps all have an extra

There´s no (noticeable) shadows when overcast, which is realistic. Think the somewhat bland looking city streets add to the shadowless impression. Adding bits more contour and devastation might improv

It’s Berlin in 1945, so not sure what else it could be. From ground level and level 2 It looks good, where I spend most of my time. I expect most of the starting images  from high level views will be

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Meanwhile, up near Berliner Weisse, he is moving infantry toward where I plan to bring those 2 platoons.  It seems they are coming from where the attrition happened earlier in the battle. I saw a lot of red crosses during that. So hopefully they are just beat up inits. I sure wish I had an OT-34 up there to burn them up.

 

 

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27 minutes ago, Macisle said:

Oof. Carnage. Hang in there!

-Hope there is no waypoint wonkiness with your ATG teams. Sometimes, they go a-wonderin'...

Where exactly are you planning to position them? I'm sweating it for them.

I'm putting it right here. And I'll have sight lines in the direction of the arrows. 

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2 hours ago, BFCElvis said:

I'm putting it right here. And I'll have sight lines in the direction of the arrows. 

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Thanks for the pic!  On the pro side, that little rise in the ground between the ATG team and the street looks to perhaps offer a small bit of protection/concealment vs a taller tank on the street. Also, staying there avoids your guys lining up along a wall in the alley, which generally seems to narrow an ATG crew's view and actually put them at a disadvantage versus an AFV's spotting speed (one with 4-5 men, anyway).

On the con side, they probably won't be able to react and turn quickly enough to counter any threats from the right or rear. Frontally, that close range is dicey for an ATG. A passing tank may be too fast for the ATG to spot and get a shot off. On the other hand, if the enemy has any hidden eyes on the ATG, he could pre-turn a tank's turret with a covered arc, dash in and start pummelling the ATG's position with area fire before it can react. I use that technique a lot when kicking the tires on my urban map.

I'm not saying there are any better alternatives...just analyzing. Pondering my ATG testing on my urban map, I generally like to have a minimum of 5-6 action squares of distance to the expected point of contact to give the ATG time to spot and get a shot. In my experience, ATGs tend to lose point blank encounters.

Jest pondering. I guess the most important thing at this point is to get them set up and ready. Any chance of having some infantry out of sight in the alley at grenade range in case he tries a rush attack like I mentioned above?

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Finally my main man is able to begin buddy aid to try and get the AT rifle back. I really want to get a shot at that SPW 251/21 with one of those things.

Then a very unexpected thing happens. He brings the armored car starts moving on Jagermeister. My fist thought is that it must be out of ammo from hammering me so badly.

 

 

 

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The Sherman has been providing some decent covering fire to the AT Rifle guy working the buddy aid. An enemy unit keeps popping up and taking some pot shots at the team and Sherman suppresses them quickly. However, it appears that he's dropping some mortar fire on the Sherman location. 

 

 

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He also appears to be moving more armor toward Jagermeister. It looks like the Mark IV that was overwatching the park near Berliner Weisse is moving into action......Or that's my guess anyway. If so, that will help my human wave assault on Berliner Weisse when the time comes.

 

 

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The mortars ...or heck, they be grenades...or whatever are making my Sherman uncomfortable. I've sat in this place for too long. Time to move it out.

But then.....Are you kidding me? That damn SPW 251/21. Can I just catch a break once? Is that asking too much?

 

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25 minutes ago, BFCElvis said:

The mortars ...or heck, they be grenades...or whatever are making my Sherman uncomfortable. I've sat in this place for too long. Time to move it out.

But then.....Are you kidding me? That damn SPW 251/21. Can I just catch a break once? Is that asking too much?

 

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Nice shots!

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Up by Berliner Weisse I'm back to seeing a lot of lead in the air. My fresh platoons are still at 100%. I believe, and I know that I could be dead wrong, that the infantry I'm shooting at is in roughed up shape and there won't be the kind of attriting (is that a real word?) that there was last time. I see some red crosses and there isn't a lot of return fire.

 

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2 hours ago, BFCElvis said:

@Macisle was spot on about the fate of the AT Gun crew. Unexpectedly a Mark IV came through a gap in the buildings and took them all out with one shot.

Here appears to be gathering his armor along this street. Gotta keep an eye on that.

Bummer, but yeah -- ATGs are pretty specialty-use.  They need to have an optimized situation to spot and land the first shot. Also, in current CM, they can be at an unrealistic additional disadvantage in terms of spotting and reaction time in some situations versus AFVs. That, and it seems like they tend to putz around loading a round when they spot something, while tanks seem to always have a round ready.

As things stand, the stock map design concept along with a ruined city setting is pretty much a worst-case environment for ATGs in current CM. AFVs are at a big, unnatural advantage in that environment. Historically,  a ruined urban environment was a great place to hide an ATG for tank ambushes. In the pics posted, I'm not seeing many places to achieve something that feels like it has a reasonable chance of that historical application.

I'd say the Soviet player's best bet -- assuming the abundance of independent buildings, rubble mounds and the resulting pathfinding actually allow for it, is to have close assault teams stationed for ambush at every potential AFV entry point, assuming they can put there without falling under enemy LOS.

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11 hours ago, BFCElvis said:

I did catch a break. @Aragorn2002 you finally got to see a screenshot of the SPW 251/21. Now here is one of it blowing up and one of it burning.

And the Sherman is high tailing it out of there while it still can.

Even now it looks good. Well, thank you for chosing this beauty in the first place. Much appreciated.

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The tank that knocked out the AT gun backed into the opening it came out of. One of my mortars can see the opening but not the tank. I'm going to drop some 82mm rounds on the area and see if I can get lucky. 

He's laying down a lot of smoke by that opening and I'm anticipating the next bit of aggravation to come from there. 

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I've noticed more sound contacts than I am comfortable with heading toward the end of the buildings on my side of the park.

I did get a hard contact as a unit was moving into a building and managed to plink a guy.

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I've been doing a good job of moving my healthy platoons into position without losing anyone. Not easy considering his move forward. I've been assembling some in an area that feels very safe at the moment and I want them to do some buddy aid to gather up all of the ammo they can get their hands on. 

I'm also calling in the off board 82mm mortar and have it cover as much of Berliner Weisse. This will take 6 minutes to arrive. There are 20 minutes left in the battle. My hope is that even if it doesn't cause any casualties if will shake him enough to get a foothold on the objective. I am guessing that he is pretty well entrenched in the objective and getting him out may be a pipe dream. If that's the case then getting some ground there will be playing for a draw. The 6 minutes gives me plenty of time to set up and human wave and work on gathering ammo

A weird thing that is backing up my guess that the units he's been moving forward aren't in the best of shape. The spotted German unit in the first screenshot is being fired on but they've stopped firing back. Is it an ammo issue since when we were atriting earlier? My units from that time have ammo but they're all broken. Like the HQ unit that is calling in the arty mentioned above.

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