Fire and Rubble DAR: BFCElvis vs Ithikial_AU - German Side

[Vacillator]

2 hours ago, Shorker said:

Hello together!

In this screenshots it looks like the members of the Volkssturm are wearing their armbands as cuffs.

I am very sure that the men of the Volkssturm were marked with a moveable armband that could be slipped
over every coat or jacket and it was worn on the upper arm for better visibility.  -> Like today's captains in a football/soccer team.
It was not a tightly sewn cuff/bracelet like e.g. with the SS uniforms.

Here are some photos, that support my statement:

https://imgur.com/WTLCT1S

https://imgur.com/qvNtDAr

https://imgur.com/yZ7ay4S

https://imgur.com/V7ejAX1

https://imgur.com/kgpmlAK

 

I think you're correct about that.  Those photos are quite sad .

[Ithikial_AU]

Yeah this is going to end well...

[Lethaface]

53 minutes ago, Ithikial_AU said:

Yeah this is going to end well...

Ouch!

Fancy a flammkuchen anyone?

Edited June 22, 2020 by Lethaface

[Shorker]

@akd

But this is only a drawing. The one who made these could be wrong.

This is as evidential as John Powell's drawings of Sadam's weapons of mass destruction, isn't it? 

Who made these drawings? What are they based on? Can we trust them? Please advise.

 

From my understanding the Volkssturm armband had to be worn on the upper arm in order to be good visible for all combatants.

 

@BFCElvis @Ithikial_AU @MOS:96B2P @ACanadianCat @MichaelEmrys @MikeyD @Mord @mjkerner

What do the beta testers and developers think about it?

Wouldn't it be appropriate to change the position of the Volkssturm armbands before the offical release?

Edited June 22, 2020 by Shorker

[akd]

39 minutes ago, Shorker said:

@akd

But this is only a drawing. The one who made these could be wrong.

This is as evidential as John Powell's drawings of Sadam's weapons of mass destruction, isn't it? 

Who made these drawings? What are they based on? Can we trust them? Please advise.

There are many photos as well.  I posted one above, but I see on my other device it is not displaying for some reason.  I will try again:

Some more:

My conclusion would be that neither position is "correct."  Both were used in various circumstances.

Edited June 22, 2020 by akd

[Ithikial_AU]

1 hour ago, Shorker said:

What do the beta testers and developers think about it?

Wouldn't it be appropriate to change the position of the Volkssturm armbands before the offical release?

It's a single texture file of the uniform. You could create a mod and mix up the armband position among the different members of your peoples militia.

[akd]

This is from Hitler’s Last Levy: The Volkssturm 1944-45:

Quote

The second-type Volkssturm armband was issued from late 1944, becoming regulation from 1 December. Although regulations stipulated that it was to be worn on the upper left arm, contemporary photographs suggest it was frequently worn lower down in the manner of a cuff-title.

I can’t find any explanation for this, but indeed most photographs have the later-pattern bands in that position.  Perhaps given that it was in the national colors, they were afraid it would be confused with Nazi Party armbands?  The early-pattern white armbands, however, seem to have been almost universally worn on the upper arm.

Edited June 22, 2020 by akd

[Shorker]

@Ithikial : Yes, I will modify this.

 

@akd : Just brilliant!    I never knew about this. Now I learned something new - thank you for the photos, the discussion and the proof!   2 x Like!

[Ithikial_AU]

We Say Goodbye to Another YouTuber

Good night @Josey Wales, you did not see the third guy with the AT Rifle. Josey raced forward to try and save more members of @benpark's KG being gunned down many Soviet SMG soldiers. He was partially successful and engaged Soviet AT Rifles that responded but there were simply too many. One shot through the side took out the loader and the crew bailed from the vehicle to be quickly gunned down in the street.

The remants of KG Josey Wales is helping @DoubleD hold the north while going after the lone T34 guarding the approach to OBJ Jaegermeister. This will hopefully cause him to take stock of the situation and stop the steady stream of Soviet reinforcements he is flooding south to tackle OBJ Beer. These are running the gauntlet of DoubleD's panzers.

The south has been bloody. Since my last update two full squads of @mjkerner's fallschirmjaeger have been wiped out. The remaining Soviet tanks are poking forward and blasting any spot they get with HE, bullets and flame. There's still enough troops to hold the position but it's starting to get a little dicey in terms of numbers of front line riefleman.

Directly after the last little teaser the whole squad of fallschirmjaeger were wiped out except for two pixeltruppen who are holding bravely among the flames to look after their injured.

Soviet soldiers streaming south still run into the wall of steel holding OBJ Beer.

FInally in the centre it's become pretty quiet. KG @Bootie and KG benpark are holding form after seeing off their infantry opposition (for now). And for a rare site, the Volkssturm decided to not surrender after all once the SS Troops arrived on scene and took care of the opposition.

Here is the map of the situation and the next few planned movements. Not a lot. I hold two objectives, it's up to Elvis to make the serious move now. I think a human wave of some description is coming in the south very soon though.

(Yes I do realise that I've somehow killed all three prominent Combat Mission YouTubers... honestly not on purpose).

[Heinrich505]

Ithikial_AU,

   That was certainly some crazy action.  The shot of the paras was classic.  There they are, slapping out the flames on their comrades and administering buddy aid.  After being hit by the flamethrower tank, I would have expected the survivors to run in panic from the location.  These two must be pulling a "Crazy Heinrich."

   Hmmm...very strange that the Volksturm changed their minds about surrender, around the time that the SS showed up.  No, no, Obersharführer, it is very warm in here und our weapons schlipped vrom our hands.  You see, vee pick them up very quickly.  No problems here.  

   Really cool pictures.  Thanks for posting and all the action so far.  It is pretty gripping.

   I'm sure those fallen KG YouTube leaders won't hold a grudge, with KG Ithikial being prominently featured in upcoming CM videos...or will they?...[muhahaha - evil laughter]

   It is a great battle, and I'm enjoying all the action and the screenshots.  Thanks to you and BFC Elvis for putting this on.

Heinrich505  

[jtsjc1]

Great AAR.  I'm gonna guess the SS troops "convinced" the Volksstrurm it would be better to fight.

[Ithikial_AU]

I've got permission from BFCElvis to post about something a little to the side of this content.

Fixing the Hedgerow Bug

It's perhaps most prevalent in CMBN given the abundance of hedgerow maps/scenarios but applies across all titles for infantry behind hard cover. You may have noticed my Green troops in this battle have not been running away or into the streets towards the enemy during these firefights with the Soviet infantry.

This whole DAR has been using a version of the F&R beta that includes some tweaks to the TacAI to address infantry bolting from cover when coming under small arms fire. Infantry that come under small arms fire are more likely to seek cover and 'cower' rather than displace, even when pinned/rattled. Infantry are more likely to bolt when under attack from high explosives... (which let's face it makes sense. )

The changes I've noticed:

- It becomes very hard to dislodge infantry already set up in a building or behind a wall. Even when you lose LOS/LOF there's a good chance your opponent is still there. (I've joked it's going to take naval shells to dislodge Veteran troops).

- Getting the jump on the enemy while they are moving / before they are set up and ready to seek cover still causes morale to collapse very quickly. Case in point: like when most of my Pioneer platoon evaporated under SMG fire within 30 seconds.

- Infantry taking persistent casualties will still suffer morale damage over the long term. Like my Volkssturm surrendering after a solid five minutes of constant rifle fire back and forth.

- Expect longer drawn out firefights in urban and hedgerow maps. That also means watching those ammo counters more closely.

- High explosive and flame options just became a lot more valuable in urban combat. Close quarter AVRE or M12 GMC anyone?

 

Still being tested and subject to change but there are positive signs among the beta testers so far.

All for now.

[snarre]

that sounds greit . any info when modul or patch then go out  ?

Edited June 25, 2020 by snarre

[Macisle]

4 hours ago, Ithikial_AU said:

I've got permission from BFCElvis to post about something a little to the side of this content.

Fixing the Hedgerow Bug

It's perhaps most prevalent in CMBN given the abundance of hedgerow maps/scenarios but applies across all titles for infantry behind hard cover. You may have noticed my Green troops in this battle have not been running away or into the streets towards the enemy during these firefights with the Soviet infantry.

This whole DAR has been using a version of the F&R beta that includes some tweaks to the TacAI to address infantry bolting from cover when coming under small arms fire. Infantry that come under small arms fire are more likely to seek cover and 'cower' rather than displace, even when pinned/rattled. Infantry are more likely to bolt when under attack from high explosives... (which let's face it makes sense. )

The changes I've noticed:

- It becomes very hard to dislodge infantry already set up in a building or behind a wall. Even when you lose LOS/LOF there's a good chance your opponent is still there. (I've joked it's going to take naval shells to dislodge Veteran troops).

- Getting the jump on the enemy while they are moving / before they are set up and ready to seek cover still causes morale to collapse very quickly. Case in point: like when most of my Pioneer platoon evaporated under SMG fire within 30 seconds.

- Infantry taking persistent casualties will still suffer morale damage over the long term. Like my Volkssturm surrendering after a solid five minutes of constant rifle fire back and forth.

- Expect longer drawn out firefights in urban and hedgerow maps. That also means watching those ammo counters more closely.

- High explosive and flame options just became a lot more valuable in urban combat. Close quarter AVRE or M12 GMC anyone?

 

Still being tested and subject to change but there are positive signs among the beta testers so far.

All for now.

Thanks for the info, Ithikial.

Things are sounding good. I have a question about indirect vs. direct HE and infantry displacement behavior, though. Yes, if an infantry unit in a building starts taking direct HE fire, the best choice is to displace asap (out of LOS of course, not into the enemy unit's LOS via front door, etc). However, the opposite is true for indirect HE if that means running out of the building. I sure hope that's been taken into account and factored in. I've done a lot of testing on my urban map and infantry hiding on bottom floors can weather a substantial amount of powerful arty with minimal to moderate casualties. But, if they run out of the building, they're toast.  Just recently, I was testing some QB setups and noticed large swaths of AI infantry who didn't set up hidden driven out of very protective buildings to their deaths by arty. It was night and day vs. some earlier non-QB testing where they stayed hidden in place.

[Glubokii Boy]

1 hour ago, Macisle said:

Thanks for the info, Ithikial.

Things are sounding good. I have a question about indirect vs. direct HE and infantry displacement behavior, though. Yes, if an infantry unit in a building starts taking direct HE fire, the best choice is to displace asap (out of LOS of course, not into the enemy unit's LOS via front door, etc). However, the opposite is true for indirect HE if that means running out of the building. I sure hope that's been taken into account and factored in. I've done a lot of testing on my urban map and infantry hiding on bottom floors can weather a substantial amount of powerful arty with minimal to moderate casualties. But, if they run out of the building, they're toast.  Just recently, I was testing some QB setups and noticed large swaths of AI infantry who didn't set up hidden driven out of very protective buildings to their deaths by arty. It was night and day vs. some earlier non-QB testing where they stayed hidden in place.

Good point !

[Ithikial_AU]

2 hours ago, Macisle said:

Things are sounding good. I have a question about indirect vs. direct HE and infantry displacement behavior, though. Yes, if an infantry unit in a building starts taking direct HE fire, the best choice is to displace asap (out of LOS of course, not into the enemy unit's LOS via front door, etc). However, the opposite is true for indirect HE...

Well I've been dumping 81mm mortar fire onto the buildings near OBJ Beer occupation by the Soviets and it hasn't made a lick of difference. I'm guessing a lucky shot falling directly out the front of an occupied window would make the pixeltruppen double think their life choices, but light/medium rounds hitting rooftops isn't doing anything to enemy troops on the ground floor. We don't have any heavy artillery in this match up so I can't tell you if a 155mm howitzer shell crashing into the building's roof does something different.

[AlanSA]

7 hours ago, Ithikial_AU said:

I've got permission from BFCElvis to post about something a little to the side of this content.

Fixing the Hedgerow Bug

It's perhaps most prevalent in CMBN given the abundance of hedgerow maps/scenarios but applies across all titles for infantry behind hard cover. You may have noticed my Green troops in this battle have not been running away or into the streets towards the enemy during these firefights with the Soviet infantry.

This whole DAR has been using a version of the F&R beta that includes some tweaks to the TacAI to address infantry bolting from cover when coming under small arms fire. Infantry that come under small arms fire are more likely to seek cover and 'cower' rather than displace, even when pinned/rattled. Infantry are more likely to bolt when under attack from high explosives... (which let's face it makes sense. )

The changes I've noticed:

- It becomes very hard to dislodge infantry already set up in a building or behind a wall. Even when you lose LOS/LOF there's a good chance your opponent is still there. (I've joked it's going to take naval shells to dislodge Veteran troops).

- Getting the jump on the enemy while they are moving / before they are set up and ready to seek cover still causes morale to collapse very quickly. Case in point: like when most of my Pioneer platoon evaporated under SMG fire within 30 seconds.

- Infantry taking persistent casualties will still suffer morale damage over the long term. Like my Volkssturm surrendering after a solid five minutes of constant rifle fire back and forth.

- Expect longer drawn out firefights in urban and hedgerow maps. That also means watching those ammo counters more closely.

- High explosive and flame options just became a lot more valuable in urban combat. Close quarter AVRE or M12 GMC anyone?

 

Still being tested and subject to change but there are positive signs among the beta testers so far.

All for now.

Just for clarity has there been any tweaks at all to Tac AI's reaction to HE explosives?

In my admittedly limited experience the "hedgerow  bug" was far more prevalent as a reaction to HE explosives than small arms fire.

While I appreciate the efforts so far it is disconcerting issues like squads running off to be slaughtered  because a explosive went off somewhere in the vicinity might still remain.

Edit:  I see you have shed more light on this issue while I was typing this up. Thanks

Edited June 25, 2020 by AlanSA

[Bubba883XL]

Great stuff...may I ask do the volksturm officers have like, more official looking uniforms? Seen pictures around where they wore uniforms in the colour of brown shirt shirts. 

[akd]

1 hour ago, Bubba883XL said:

Great stuff...may I ask do the volksturm officers have like, more official looking uniforms? Seen pictures around where they wore uniforms in the colour of brown shirt shirts. 

That's probably because many Volkssturm officers were local party officials, but there was no Volkssturm officer uniform.

[Bubba883XL]

gotchya, would be a nice mix i'd think, maybe for a mod or something

[Macisle]

11 hours ago, Ithikial_AU said:

Well I've been dumping 81mm mortar fire onto the buildings near OBJ Beer occupation by the Soviets and it hasn't made a lick of difference. I'm guessing a lucky shot falling directly out the front of an occupied window would make the pixeltruppen double think their life choices, but light/medium rounds hitting rooftops isn't doing anything to enemy troops on the ground floor. We don't have any heavy artillery in this match up so I can't tell you if a 155mm howitzer shell crashing into the building's roof does something different.

Okay, thanks. I was thinking more of 105mm and up. Medium mortars are pretty low effect vs. dense modular buildings. Of course, they are more effective vs. non-church independent.

Anyhoo, we'll see, I guess. Thanks again for the info and the AAR in general. I'm very much enjoying it!

[Bubba883XL]

And thank you for the update on the hedgerow bug. Is certainly appreciated! It's all sounding good... Can't wait. 

[Ithikial_AU]

The Avenger

Very small update.

@DoubleD has been avenged by one of Josey Wale's remaining vehicles. The Cannon Halftrack SPW 251/22. A half track with a giant tank gun somehow mounted onto it. This was the same T-34 that surived Double D's side penetrating hit before taking out his Panther with a catastrophic hit.

(Yes crew positions is likely bugged - It's a beta people. )

[Macisle]

On 6/27/2020 at 2:52 PM, Ithikial_AU said:

The Avenger

Very small update.

@DoubleD has been avenged by one of Josey Wale's remaining vehicles. The Cannon Halftrack SPW 251/22. A half track with a giant tank gun somehow mounted onto it. This was the same T-34 that surived Double D's side penetrating hit before taking out his Panther with a catastrophic hit.

(Yes crew positions is likely bugged - It's a beta people. )

Such a cool looking halftrack. Lovely model, too! It's great when the lesser units/oddballs make their presence felt on the battlefield.

How many rounds do those babies have?

[Ithikial_AU]

1 hour ago, Macisle said:

Such a cool looking halftrack. Lovely model, too! It's great when the lesser units/oddballs make their presence felt on the battlefield.

How many rounds do those babies have?

This is the first or second shot fired by this vehicle during the battle. What you see in the UI is pretty much it.