Overpowered Buildings?

[Sgt.Squarehead]

As a quick experiment in what I'm talking about.....In iron mode, use a two man scout team to find an enemy unit, then send them back to their parent squad and watch to see how that information spreads up and accross your formation (during a turn click on units and see if they've received the info). 

Keep an eye on your units' C2 status (the little box with a picture of a radio, a shouty man, or an eye), if the information isn't (slowly) spreading somebody isn't talking to somebody else, using 'Visible Command Links' (Alt+Z) can help you to figure out who that is.

I highly recommend you study @MOS:96B2P's posts on the subject of C2 & informaton sharing.....Hopefully he might pop in with a link or two for you.

Edited May 21, 2020 by Sgt.Squarehead

[MOS:96B2P]

One of the links is below: 

 

Edited May 21, 2020 by MOS:96B2P

[Sgt.Squarehead]

That'll be the one. 

[jxrey]

[jxrey]

@Wicky , tried to send the save game file, but it's over the forum's 1.95 MB attachment limit.  Compressing it didn't seem to reduce the size much.  Can anyone explain how to attach a save game file?  

[Sgt.Squarehead]

Best bet is to use something like Dropbox and then post a link here.

[Wicky]

Yes as SS suggests look online for:  file upload free

[jxrey]

Try this:  https://www.dropbox.com/s/arcv9ivmn9qyzw9/A Moment in Time 020.bts?dl=0

It's the first time I'm sending a save file, so let me know if it doesn't work.  I was hoping to find a save file that captured the scene a little before this, when I was unloading on the buildings to little effect.  This is after that, when, basically, I had captured one of the structures in the center of the row and went on to take another two.  I also finally manged to collapse the wall of one of the stone buildings on the right, after I don't know how many mortar strikes.  Not sure if this happened after i posted here or just before (and maybe I didn't notice).  Note that the soldier in that structure is still there (though finally rattled).   

You could say that my barrage of mortar and gun fire paid off since, by this time, I managed to kill some building occupants, rattle another, and collapse at least one wall.  But it took a long time, especially considering that there weren't that many enemy units defending this front row.  At this point, you'll see that my own troops are in such a sorry state (mostly killed, rattled, and broken) that they can't go on much further.  After this, I went on to take that first row of buildings except the one on the very far left edge.  Time ran out while trying to take the next center cluster of structures with whatever shell-shocked units I had left.  

[Wicky]

So you haven't got a save from closer to the beginning?

Still it sounds like you got as far as possible in the end with time and ammo expended.

[Sgt.Squarehead]

14 hours ago, jxrey said:

After this, I went on to take that first row of buildings except the one on the very far left edge.  Time ran out while trying to take the next center cluster of structures with whatever shell-shocked units I had left.

Sounds nightmarish TBH!  This is often where the 'Pause' mentioned earlier can come in handy.  As soon as you take the building, pause the unit and maybe even hide them, while moving fresh units into & through their position to continue the fight.  This should keep them in place and give them some time to recover before taking up the fight again themselves.

[jxrey]

Wicky, apparently, I didn’t do a good job creating well-spaced save points. Everything i have before this is basically setup and immediately thereafter  (though maybe I have one of my approach through the forest).  If you think one of these will be helpful, I’ll send it.

[Wicky]

Mmmm yes from that position it's a challenge with the already whittled and brittle low quality troops at hand against the Veteran troops - plus it was real time (not my fave way of playing) - I wondered what was going on for the first 3 minutes!

Noticed that some buidings don't block 100% and shots pass through both ways 

If you have got an earlier turn before contact is made I'll have a look but I wouldn't hold up much hope of turning the allies over.

Edited May 24, 2020 by Wicky

[Sgt.Squarehead]

Does anyone have a turn-based save?  Preferably Iron Mode? 

I am genuinely intrigued to see what the score is (and fight the battle), but don't have time for a(nother) campaign right now.....I can't get my head around realtime at all these days, although I used to like it for (very) small unit actions.

[RockinHarry]

3 hours ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

Does anyone have a turn-based save?  Preferably Iron Mode? 

I am genuinely intrigued to see what the score is (and fight the battle), but don't have time for a(nother) campaign right now.....I can't get my head around realtime at all these days, although I used to like it for (very) small unit actions.

CMBN V4.02, WEGO, Iron mode

Quit that mission yesterday, 16 turns left. Took it all more as reccon in force as the unit stats didn´t recommend anything more aggressive. Successfully mortared down a flanking threat in a barn to the south and felt I might try on some the buildings in the first row. After moving a platoon to that southernmost position it received some hits from enemies further back and in keyholed positions. Two my squads easily broke and then criss crossed shaken and panicked in front of more enemy units. Up to this point friendly losses were rather light but after the brainless evade moves I got the feel the same would more than likely happen in the planned assault on the center buildings. 70-80% of losses were from the TacAI´s evade moves and I rather liked to spare myself of more frustration. Cease fire got me a major defeat (off course). Here´s save file. Maybe someone could play it to better conclusion.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/rnfuxpl522g0t99/MiT_LastTurn.bts?dl=0

Found another interesting use of the instant pause command. I "marked" all "known" enemy positions by putting a waypoint (slow) on them from Coy HQ and then "paused". This to more conveniently memorize all the threats on this small but highly complex map.

Edited May 25, 2020 by RockinHarry

[MOS:96B2P]

10 hours ago, RockinHarry said:

Found another interesting use of the instant pause command. I "marked" all "known" enemy positions by putting a waypoint (slow) on them from Coy HQ and then "paused". This to more conveniently memorize all the threats on this small but highly complex map.

+1.  I also use this in similar ways especially for high value targets.    

I'll often have a vehicle for each platoon (jeep, kubelwagon, etc.) on permanent Pause next to the HQ building.  Then I'll plot out the attack axis to be taken by each platoon.  I use the reverse command since the green line is easy to spot among the mostly yellow lines of a platoon's fire teams.  Then the platoons follow the assigned axis of advance.  I use a house rule that the axis can be changed after the scenario start but it costs five minutes (probably to fast for RL) to issue an updated axis of advance.  Then just drag the waypoints to the new axis.  

I also have a HQ team assigned to call for fire on TRPs.  The team is at the HQ on permanent Pause.  A waypoint is placed on each TRP with a 50 meters circular target arc.  This shows both the location and plotting area of the TRPs.  

Waypoints & their lines with permanent Pause can be used for many interesting things.     

[Sgt.Squarehead]

Very creative use of the CM toolset.....I should expect no less from you guys. 

[RockinHarry]

15 hours ago, MOS:96B2P said:

+1.  I also use this in similar ways especially for high value targets.    

I'll often have a vehicle for each platoon (jeep, kubelwagon, etc.) on permanent Pause next to the HQ building.  Then I'll plot out the attack axis to be taken by each platoon.  I use the reverse command since the green line is easy to spot among the mostly yellow lines of a platoon's fire teams.  Then the platoons follow the assigned axis of advance.  I use a house rule that the axis can be changed after the scenario start but it costs five minutes (probably to fast for RL) to issue an updated axis of advance.  Then just drag the waypoints to the new axis.  

I also have a HQ team assigned to call for fire on TRPs.  The team is at the HQ on permanent Pause.  A waypoint is placed on each TRP with a 50 meters circular target arc.  This shows both the location and plotting area of the TRPs.  

Waypoints & their lines with permanent Pause can be used for many interesting things.     

++1

Another creative  use indeed! While some the custom marking bits of defeats Iron play mode (friendly FOW), I found it necessary to help on this particularly hard mission (A moment in time).

Back to original topic. I found nothing unusual on the buildings toughness. It´s all independent buildings which offer least available cover to enemy weapons at less than 300m. I´d always think twice entering any of them with multiple enemies that close. Key difference between opposing sides is that few high morale and experienced paras can easily rout any the german rookies, despite superior numbers. What makes matters worse in this mission is german leaders are almost all of the -1 and -2 type. So it doesn´t actually matter if germans get caught in- or outside buildings. They´d always start running the wrong way if the shooting starts. And these are the situations where most the losses are taken due to the crappy evade mechanism. (Permanent) "Pause" can prevent some the worst of it though in certain circumstances only.

 

[Warts 'n' all]

Even before the "evade" problem reared it's head this was a tough one. A Major Defeat with 41 casualties back in the good old days of Engine 2.

[jxrey]

Thanks to all for your feedback.