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I would like to keep this open because I think having a place to vent is a good thing. But let's keep it to personal experiences and things like that. Let's leave conspiracy theories off of here and keep them on conspiracy theory sites (yes, I'm looking at you @John Kettler). Otherwise I'll just shut it down. And I'd really rather not do that.

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I've got an idea.  Let's NOT trust scientists & doctors who ACTUALLY KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT. Let's trust Fox news, who've done a stellar job of brainwashing people into being very unsafe

JFC Kettler could you just once not spread your conspiracy bull**** all over the place.  Goddamn man.

Here are some shocking news from the UK. Perhaps @Warts 'n' all can confirm:

Posted Images

Thanks Elvis, this is getting ridiculous.  

I for one know the cure -- open pre-orders for F&R!  that will give us all something new and at least harmless to make conspiracy theories about.  "they are never going to release it, I saw a picture on the internet showing someone that was clearly Steve from BF  with a sack full of money leaving the country!  And he was with another guy in a Philly Eagles Tshirt!"

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On 3/21/2020 at 8:18 PM, Erwin said:

Not a good ad for the protective abilities of a mask, then.  Poor lady... 

At least she is free from the tyranny of the Burka.  My wife was on business in ME and had to wear a burka in certain places.  She absolutely hated it plus detested the reasons she and the other women were forced to wear em.

A Dr died fighting the virus and all you can think about is how to criticize her clothing? Really? You're not using your heart for what hearts are for.

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On 3/20/2020 at 6:44 PM, John Kettler said:

Erwin,

No zombies yet, but if if an alleged high level Chinese intelligence officer's shocking disclosures are true, then China should have a superabundance of POed ghosts. He's claiming a Chinese BW agent got loose; that China has a super lethal epidemic in progress and is hiding it. I dissected his claims on FB, from the perspectives of a former Soviet Threat Analyst at Hughes and Rockwell (11+) years (including working on CW, BW an N protection for aircrews and aircraft decontamination on Rockwell's entry into the competition that resulted in the F-22), plus familiarity with how the Chinese operate and concluded the case made was credible, though not necessarily true. In fact, I found it so credible and disturbing, I tweeted, including POTUS as one addressee. Putting the story together would be super intricate, time consuming, expensive and easily disproven if even one element was out of place, so would be a huge effort involving a slew of disciplines, extraordinary knowledge and experience. China has everything to lose from promulgating such a story, and the writer was quite clear he was a dead man if Chinese authorities figured out who he was. Would further note there's a direct parallel incident in the 1979 anthrax leak from a TOP SECRET Soviet BW facility in Sverdlovsk. The official explanation then was "contaminated meat", but eventually the truth got out. The Soviets used decontamination methods like what the Chinese are using (the hordes of people with what look like dust blowers) but found there was no way to get the anthrax pores out of the pavement, so paved them over. 

If the disclosures by the purported Chinese spook China bashing, the place where the story was surfaced was so obscure as to be all but nonexistent, so that didn't make sense, either. If China felt it was being bashed by that story, then where are China's vehement denunciation--by it and its tame Congress critters, lobbyists and such here? Here is the story I refer to. Can provide it only because a colleague sent it to me. Never heard of that site before. But as the infomercials always blare, "But wait. There's more!" Should tell you that new information has surfaced which powerfully supports the referenced article, and the collection approach was truly ingenious. Apparently, the Chinese run their lives through their phones and do NOT change numbers because of the havoc it would cause for them. What a guy named Michael J Kahnke posted on FB are links showing that for this year and this year only 14.5 MILLION phone numbers have been permanently retired. This is wholly consistent with the spook's claims that the Chinese are incinerating vast numbers of bodies after people die from it while housed in what are shown as containment and recovery facilities for the CV infected. He says the real cycle is contained infected (showable), then not showable disintegrating and weak (left uncared for and worse), then burned after death. 

sburke

Appreciate this info. Reports of empty aisles at Walmart confirmed by several people who've been to local Walmart Super Center. But at local Sprouts, about the only things noticeably deficient were TP and larger sizes of water. Neither were to be had.  Read an interesting claim lately that the TP shortage rumor was a benign US government psyop to get people to be better prepared if things get unstable for a time. YT site owners with sources in the NG, military, law enforcement and the like say their are talking about several weeks of US martial law and soon. The alleged psyop's logic goes: Spread rumor of TP crisis, which gets people to go the store, during which they not unreasonably pick up other things they might need. Net result? Preparedness improved, but without the kind of panic which might ensue in the event of an official announcement by the government. Weird, but it makes sense and is pretty clever.

In other news, I'm ahead of trend on self-quarantine, in that my lack of a car and other issues have caused me to be de facto that way for a long time. Also, I've lost no sleep whatsoever fretting--to being terrified over getting CV, this in a house with the CV fear and panic news blaring (via housemate) almost all day and well into the night!

Regards,

John Kettler
   

 

Op Infektion started with a crappy story in an Indian newspaper.  The KGB used that story a couple years later. 

Further scientests have debunked the bio weapon gone loose theory.

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14 hours ago, John Kettler said:

Wicky,

No need to rely on thewash, for here's a very good article showing how FactCheck operates and from what slant.

https://capitalresearch.org/article/dishonest-fact-checkers/

Much appreciate the other two links, their insights, and shall pass them on.

Regards,

John Kettler

Did you miss that TheWash doesn't even exist! and now you fall back to the opion piece of a right wing blogger in a right wing's 'think tank' website.

How do you explain why a certain President is more than happy to use Factscheck, Snopes. politifact when it suits him - Ironic huh! Does that make your brain short circuit...

https://assets.donaldjtrump.com/2017/web/hero_images/Redacted_PUSA_Letter.pdf

//and shall pass them on.

No look at it yourself, let it sink in and take responsibility for the woo nonsense  you keep posting.

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California, where I live, and New York have applied the most stringent rules vi-a-vis the virus. Simply walking on the sidewalk here in LA- without serious purpose- risks a ticket. One notices that there are two opposing sides: those that wish to clamp down on nearly all economic activity in the interest of 'health' and those fearing a recession or worse, don't. Saving humanity or, borrowing from Tacitus, a case of leaving a desert and calling it peace. Maybe a compromise?

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Probably the most effective answer to both controlling the spread of the virus and keeping the global economy at a reasonable idle is the answer leaders are under increasing pressure to divert from, which is the current course of action. Discourse is quickly turning into a false dilemma on either releasing restrictions entirely or clamping down more. Probably the course we're on is the most appropriate one at this time but you wouldn't know it from the slippery slopes being dropped by both sides demanding the most extreme measures of either end probably neither of which are appropriate. 

Release restrictions and the infections will shoot up again, clamp down more and you risk shutting down critical infrastructure and supply flows that many people may well be barely subsisting on as is. We shouldn't forget either that rigidly enforced stay-at-home orders and draconian travel restrictions enter into some very dangerous political territory posing lots of questions that will need good answers one day, if not tomorrow, then someday. 

Other than that, my own opinion is that unless the European Union takes some seriously unilateral action it will be the most prominent casualty of the crisis on its current course. I don't want to sound too narrow about that from my own American perspective, but Brussels did not set a very strong precedent during the Eurozone Crisis in 2010 and a lot of that rolled out in the long run to things like Brexit. Nothing will happen right away I think, but without some kind of entirely self-owned action I can see the European Union reduced to effectively League-of-Nations status by 2030 if it's still around at all. 

Edited by SimpleSimon
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On 3/25/2020 at 7:26 PM, Kevin2k said:

(Despite my efforts) I did catch some radio news yesterday. The newsreader came with a total casualty count for the The Netherlands and the average age of the supposed casualties of the, well lets call it pandemic then; 85... 

So another; make of it what you will.

Edit: I wondered will they admit that age in writing?: https://www.rivm.nl/nieuws/actuele-informatie-over-coronavirus  Says the average was 82 years, for the 23rd. Almost...

Similar contradictions in the UK. Their words not mine:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/high-consequence-infectious-diseases-hcid

"As of 19 March 2020, COVID-19 is no longer considered to be a high consequence infectious diseases (HCID) in the UK. ... They have determined that several features have now changed; in particular, more information is available about mortality rates (low overall)"

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Yes, low mortality -- until you have so many cases that it overwhelms the critical care.  WTF is so hard to understand here?  that's why we are trying to flatten the curve.  If everyone who needs high-tech care can get it there's low mortality, no f-ing kidding.  This cherry picking of words is feeding into the idiots that think this is some kind of hoax.  Was Italy not losing 700+ a day just last week?  what would that be if they didn't isolate?  Are all the world's disease experts and doctors imbeciles?  And the only ones that can see the truth are our intrepid bloggers bouncing around the internet?   

this UK site has a reduced designation of the disease that makes it sound like it's not a threat UNLESS YOU READ THE WHOLE STATEMENT.  That designation is clearly stated to be about the treatment facilities needed for Covid19 not needing to be special, isolated facilities.   IT DOES NOT MEAN IT'S NOT F-ING DANGEROUS.

That same site says:

The need to have a national, coordinated response remains, but this is being met by the government’s COVID-19 response.

 

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3 hours ago, danfrodo said:

Yes, low mortality -- until you have so many cases that it overwhelms the critical care.  WTF is so hard to understand here?  that's why we are trying to flatten the curve.  If everyone who needs high-tech care can get it there's low mortality, no f-ing kidding.  This cherry picking of words is feeding into the idiots that think this is some kind of hoax.  Was Italy not losing 700+ a day just last week?  what would that be if they didn't isolate?  Are all the world's disease experts and doctors imbeciles?  And the only ones that can see the truth are our intrepid bloggers bouncing around the internet?   

this UK site has a reduced designation of the disease that makes it sound like it's not a threat UNLESS YOU READ THE WHOLE STATEMENT.  That designation is clearly stated to be about the treatment facilities needed for Covid19 not needing to be special, isolated facilities.   IT DOES NOT MEAN IT'S NOT F-ING DANGEROUS.

That same site says:

The need to have a national, coordinated response remains, but this is being met by the government’s COVID-19 response.

 

Bald statements from te press = plenty

Evidence = little ( +contradictory / illogical )

We agree = no

Edited by Kevin2k
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3 hours ago, danfrodo said:

Yes, low mortality -- until you have so many cases that it overwhelms the critical care.  WTF is so hard to understand here?  that's why we are trying to flatten the curve.  If everyone who needs high-tech care can get it there's low mortality, no f-ing kidding.  This cherry picking of words is feeding into the idiots that think this is some kind of hoax.  Was Italy not losing 700+ a day just last week?

 

Back up to 919 today.

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13 hours ago, nik mond said:

What are they doing right, up there in Russia? 

Every time I see a map of pandemic cases I always notice the very small amount in Russia.  I googled the situation in Russia and found generalized answers as to why there are so few cases.  None of the answers I found were very specific. 

While I was typing I see @akd said Russia is not testing.  Now this would for sure limit the known cases.  :o

Why in the world would they not test?  No test kits?  I would think they have the ability to obtain or maybe produce test kits if they wanted to?   

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52061381

Is there is a hint that it is a corrupt European problem and not something for Russia to worry about?

I wonder if it does escalate there will it get properly reported either here in the west or Russia. 

With the oil prices the way it is i am guessing the Russian government might be struggling and by keeping it low profile it stops the people from getting worried and any potential unrest contained. 

This crisis will test the political stability of every nation. 

I am still gobsmacked that despite warnings and previous planning both in the UK and America we are struggling to get effective testing sorted... Lessons need to be learnt but I guess we will forget them the next time we get hit by a pandemic...

🙄

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1 hour ago, MOS:96B2P said:

Why in the world would they not test?  No test kits?  I would think they have the ability to obtain or maybe produce test kits if they wanted to?   

I am just basing this on 10 minutes of mainstream press internet searches. But the story seems to be that they are trying to develop test kits, but so far they do not exist. Like for example stated here:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/johncumbers/2020/03/14/with-its-coronavirus-rapid-paper-test-strip-this-crispr-startup-wants-to-help-halt-a-pandemic/

Besides that, I have serious doubt that COVID-19 or something can be separated from some other COVID strain or any other virus strain. Virus are said to be much smaller then bacteria. PCR amplification of RNA leftovers in a lab is what I understand to be the mainstream method, but there are also indicators for it being unreliable, or even flawed. Next question is how often is this PCR actually performed with patients, especially patients with other conditions and/or the elderly.

 

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What confuses me is that China and other countries have developed decent testing regimes and surely could share the expertise? It seems like each country is reinventing the test process and test kits.

I guess the WHO don't co-ordinate this expertise and once a design is proven the technical blueprint should be shared and rolled out?

The only news on this I saw is that America shipped a large number of kits from Italy to America via a military transport. I guess maybe Italy did not need them?

https://www.defenseone.com/threats/2020/03/us-air-force-flew-half-million-coronavirus-test-kits-italy-tennessee/163879/

This virus has been known about since January what have countries been doing, testing is just basic common sense surely for those experts in the know?

Edited by Holien
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https://thebulwark.com/warnings-ignored-a-timeline-of-trumps-covid-19-response/

So tonight I have been digging to understand what we knew when and why we (UK / Europe / America) failed to prepare. 

While the above article obviously has a target in its sights it gives a timeline in America of what was known when, and it is not a liberal hippy dippy site doing the analysis. 

I will keep digging to see if a similar timeline analysis has been done for the UK / Europe. 

I seem to remember the UK ran some exercises several years ago and it showed how badly prepared we were. If anyone has any links I would be interested. 

Obviously here (UK) we have been a tad preoccupied with Brexit and it has become all consuming for those in power. I guess many other important issues have been missed due to Govt bandwidth being totally consumed on one issue. 

 

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On 3/26/2020 at 7:13 PM, Erwin said:

Wow...

Here in some area  if you just go for a stroll you risk getting shot at with rubber bullets by police. Soldiers though prefer dishing out a more personal physical beat down....

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45 minutes ago, AlanSA said:

Soldiers though prefer dishing out a more personal physical beat down....

I assume you mean the Acton-Ealing area.  But, doesn't that put them more at risk of contracting??  

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Holien

“Most experts believe that it is not a question of whether there will be another severe influenza pandemic, but when.”

(The Government’s Chief Medical Officer, 2002)


“Wherever in the world a flu pandemic starts, perhaps with its epicentre in the Far East, we must assume we will be unable to prevent it reaching the UK. When it does, its impact will be severe in the number of illnesses and the disruption to everyday life. The steps we are setting out today will help us to reduce the disease's impact on our population.”
(Sir Liam Donaldson, Chief Medical Officer, 1 March 2005)

https://www.england.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/framework-pandemic-flu.pdf

I studied the Effects of Global Pandemic for a project and presentation when I worked within the NHS in 2006 and realised we were woefully underprepared, and every year since it hasn't got much better.

Brexit it bad enough, but this disaster, even when we're past it will be .. er interesting on so many levels. Like who's gonna pick the crops in the fields if we're all in lockdown... Govt prior to all this was planning on getting pensioners to replace foreign workers who'll be sorely lacking.

screenshot_1855.jpg

 

Edited by Wicky
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