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17 hours ago, Sublime said:

...david duke kkk head, neo nazis, 4chan, qanon, proud boys, 2nd amendment types, the gop, tea partiers, racists, anti abortionists, anti immigrationists,  some big industry and some foreign parties and you have the trump goulash, which personally makes me ill.

Uh... need to remember that you are using denigrating labeling to describe about half the population of the US.  Can't wait to hear the denigrating labels when Trump wins again in Nov.

Re Payment Protection for small businesses in the US... Be interesting to investigate how many businesses that had over 500 employees fired the excess so that they could qualify for the free money handout to businesses that have under 500.  

 

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I've got an idea.  Let's NOT trust scientists & doctors who ACTUALLY KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT. Let's trust Fox news, who've done a stellar job of brainwashing people into being very unsafe

JFC Kettler could you just once not spread your conspiracy bull**** all over the place.  Goddamn man.

Here are some shocking news from the UK. Perhaps @Warts 'n' all can confirm:

Posted Images

17 hours ago, Erwin said:

Always remember that history has not been kind to scientific orthodoxy of the period.  Eg: It used to be accepted science fact that the universe revolved around the earth which of course was flat (etc etc...).  

The other issue is the "big picture".  If this was 1940 and the Brits are desperately awaiting Nazi invasion, would the govt say - "just everyone stay home for a few months...".  The point is that there was a greater threat and casualties would have been expected and accepted.  Nobody wants to die or have those they love die, but if humans lived by that logic, we would never have wars at all.  Today the global threat is China and the economic war that we have been in for maybe 30 years - and which has already destroyed many western lives through ruin, despair and suicide.  If the US can get back to productivity faster than China that could halt the Chinese aggressive expansionist goals and help the west stay dominant for the foreseeable future.  Nobody was willing to pay that price in the 30's and we all know what that eventually cost in lives and treasure.  My interpretation of current calls to "open the country" is that economic dominance over China is the long term grand strategic prize that this administration is focused on.

On a side note, anyone notice how yesterday while Trump wished Kim Jong-un "well", he didn't wish him "a speedy recovery".  Nice semantics.

If we show the virus how tough we are, it will definitely back down.

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when dumbasses lead the charge

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/dr-oz-now-says-covid-154850565.html

We waste a lot of time and end up back where we should have started - with the guy who actually knows something.

On Wednesday’s Fox & Friends, Oz said, “I think there is so much data coming from so many places, we are better off waiting for the randomized trials Dr. Fauci has been asking for. Otherwise, we keep reacting back and forth for studies that show an opposite result.”

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5 hours ago, Erwin said:

Uh... need to remember that you are using denigrating labeling to describe about half the population of the US.  Can't wait to hear the denigrating labels when Trump wins again in Nov.

Re Payment Protection for small businesses in the US... Be interesting to investigate how many businesses that had over 500 employees fired the excess so that they could qualify for the free money handout to businesses that have under 500.  

Many of those labels are denigrating (at least in my view), not all.  And they aren't inaccurate.  Anti abortion folks will most likely vote for Trump and that is their own label which they are proud of.  Anti immigration, same deal.  2nd amendment types - again it is a label they wear proudly and represents what they consider to be a strong voting litmus test.

Granted they may not like being lumped in with KKK and Neo Nazis (who also proudly wear their labels) but that is factually correct and is something to consider when you are trying to understand what the person you are voting for represents. qanon conspiracy types? - Trump retweets their stuff all the time.

This is the coalition of groups that support Trump.  If you don't like being lumped in with all those groups I'd suggest reconsidering your vote.  I am sure there are plenty of labels for folks who support Biden, but I doubt I'll be totally freaked out about being lumped in with them.

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I know people are really busy but there is some potentially good news from the epicenter of New York.:

"Cuomo suggested that an infection rate of 13.9 percent statewide indicates that the death rate could be much lower than what is currently indicated. The state is currently reporting 263,460 confirmed positive coronavirus tests and 15,740 coronavirus deaths statewide, which would indicate a death rate of approximately 6 percent. But if the sample in the antibody testing is indicative of the total percentage of New Yorkers who have antibodies, that means as many as 2.7 million New Yorkers may have had the virus. That would indicate a statewide death rate of about 0.5 percent."

https://www.ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/news/2020/04/23/governor-cuomo-daily-coronavirus-update-with-first-antibody-test-results

Some folks will not acknowledge this data that was communicated by the Blue state Governor. They can't since it blows away their agenda.

So sorry to report good news.

Kevin

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1 hour ago, sburke said:

If you don't like being lumped in with all those groups I'd suggest reconsidering your vote.

The point is that the vast majority of voters are not in those categories but are regular folks.  Denigrating them is one way of guaranteeing that they will vote for Trump. 

Hmmm...  Maybe the folks who denigrate are part of the secret 5th column of Trump supporters?    Never mind then...  

 

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1 hour ago, Erwin said:

The point is that the vast majority of voters are not in those categories but are regular folks.  Denigrating them is one way of guaranteeing that they will vote for Trump. 

Hmmm...  Maybe the folks who denigrate are part of the secret 5th column of Trump supporters?    Never mind then...  

 

Wait a minute, are you saying folks who feel strongly about the 2nd amendment or abortion or immigration aren't regular folks?  I may have my disagreements with them, but I certainly don't feel that their feeling strongly on those issues is inherently screwed up.  That they are supporting a guy who constantly dog whistles the far right though  is for them to look at.  Maybe someone who is feels that strongly about abortion is willing to accept that.  It doesn't put them into the KKK orbit, but they are still backing a guy who retweets all that nonsense.

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2 hours ago, kevinkin said:

Some folks will not acknowledge this data that was communicated by the Blue state Governor. They can't since it blows away their agenda.

So sorry to report good news.

Kevin

Damn you are truly pathetic.  Care to quote the full info instead of cherry picking something for your agenda so we can "show some independent critical thinking" as you expressed it.

Cuomo suggested that an infection rate of 13.9 percent statewide indicates that the death rate could be much lower than what is currently indicated. The state is currently reporting 263,460 confirmed positive coronavirus tests and 15,740 coronavirus deaths statewide, which would indicate a death rate of approximately 6 percent. But if the sample in the antibody testing is indicative of the total percentage of New Yorkers who have antibodies, that means as many as 2.7 million New Yorkers may have had the virus. That would indicate a statewide death rate of about 0.5 percent.
The governor did indicate two caveats with that theory. One is that the official state death count only indicates deaths that happened in a hospital or a nursing home, and does not include coronavirus-related deaths that occurred in a home, which means the official death count is likely higher than that official number. The other caveat is that the data from the antibody testing is only preliminary.
The governor says the tests are crucial on multiple fronts, from identifying potential convalescent plasma donors to informing state officials on the reopening strategy.
The antibody tests have not been immune to controversy, however. In the rush to get antibody tests on the market, their accuracy has been called into question, with fears of a high number of false positives. And the World Health Organizati
on (WHO) said last week that there is no evidence that antibody testing indicates that a person is immune to the disease.

Read that last line again.   I'll spell it out.  There is nothing to say that the 13.9% or 212% are folks who have developed immunity.  We could all use some good news right now, but we all know you don't really care about that. You are looking for justification. What we don't need is to start harping on unconfirmed data as proof.  Then you end up running down the rabbit hole with your fearless leader who just today showed his brilliant mind again.

“Supposing we hit the body with a tremendous ultra violet or just very powerful light,” he said, looking toward Bryan and Dr. Deborah Birx, a member of the White House coronavirus task force. “And I think you said that hasn’t been checked but you are going to test it.”
He added, “And then I said supposing you brought the light inside the body, which you could do either through the skin or in some other way. I think you said that you are going to test that, too. And then I saw the disinfectant, where knocks it out in one minute, and is there a way we could do something like that by injection inside or almost a cleaning. As you see it gets in the lungs, it does a tremendous number on the lungs, so it would be interesting to check that.”

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1 hour ago, sburke said:

Wait a minute, are you saying folks who feel strongly about the 2nd amendment or abortion or immigration aren't regular folks?  I may have my disagreements with them, but I certainly don't feel that their feeling strongly on those issues is inherently screwed up.  That they are supporting a guy who constantly dog whistles the far right though  is for them to look at.  Maybe someone who is feels that strongly about abortion is willing to accept that.  It doesn't put them into the KKK orbit, but they are still backing a guy who retweets all that nonsense.

If the vast majority of folks are tarnished by the actions of a few, by extension you are also saying that the extremists on the left delegitimise (or delegitimize if you like) the vast majority of Dems.  The problem with denigrating others with whom one disagrees is that one can get tarnished by the same brush.  Hillary's "basket of deplorables" speech did more to mobilize resentful folks to elect Trump than anything.  

Good news for environmentalist: Thanks to Covid-19, global carbon emissions are down 6% this year helping reduce global warming.  Also, was happy to hear that heat and sunlight/UV kills the virus quickly.  Now I understand why as early as last November I was sent to a god-forsaken desert projected to be sunny in the 90's this week.  But that means they knew even back in November!   :ph34r:

 

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1 hour ago, sburke said:

Damn you are truly pathetic.

I would respond technically.  But you are now using the mouse to copy and paste willy nilly stuff you never even read critically. And following it up with nothing that makes any sense in the English language. You are incoherent on this topic and lost the debate several days ago. Stop embarrassing yourself. 

Checkmate.

 

Edited by kevinkin
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1 hour ago, kevinkin said:

I would respond technically.  But you are now using the mouse to copy and paste willy nilly stuff you never even read critically. And following it up with nothing that makes any sense in the English language. You are incoherent on this topic and lost the debate several days ago. Stop embarrassing yourself. 

Checkmate.

"Lost the debate" from the guy that says I'd like tens of thousands to die just to unseat a politician.  You are so far removed from rationality that you couldn't possibly know what embarrassment means.

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1 hour ago, Erwin said:

If the vast majority of folks are tarnished by the actions of a few, by extension you are also saying that the extremists on the left delegitimise (or delegitimize if you like) the vast majority of Dems.  The problem with denigrating others with whom one disagrees is that one can get tarnished by the same brush.  Hillary's "basket of deplorables" speech did more to mobilize resentful folks to elect Trump than anything.  

That wasn't one of her better moments for sure.  However with Trump it isn't that there are whack jobs that support him - if that were all it was then hey not his problem.  It is when he retweets and advocates their positions that it steps onto a different threshold.  Now they are no longer the lunatic fringe, but instead a portion of his base he actively encourages and legitimizes.

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45 minutes ago, sburke said:

"Lost the debate" from the guy that says I'd like tens of thousands to die just to unseat a politician. 

I said you would like to see misery. I never mentioned deaths. You have been so intellectually placed into a corner its really laughable. This is like Kasparov against ... 

Alfred e newman. Stop embarrassing yourself. 

 

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4 minutes ago, kevinkin said:

I said you would like to see misery. I never mentioned deaths. You have been so intellectually place into a corner its really laughable. This is like Kasparov against ... 

Alfred e newman. Stop embarrassing yourself. 

Quote

 

@sburke

The point would be to show some independent critical thinking skills on your part. Seems that you are getting nervous that your entire Marxist media driven narrative is falling apart again and the misery you so hoped for will not happen nor take down the POTUS. Like I said on Sunday ... strike three and you are out. I love debating people with TDS. Its like taking candy from... fill in the blank. 

Kevin, 

 

For a guy so in love with his debating abilities, splitting hairs about what you meant by misery when we are discussing a pandemic and pretending you weren't implying death is not only lame but cowardly as well. I gave you a pass the first time when you whined about having a bad day, but it is pretty clear that you weren't, this is your normal self.  The only thing that I am embarrassed about is the ridiculousness of this.   Go on again with the name calling, it seems to be the level of discourse your leader adores.  That and constantly congratulating yourself.

Quote

 

BTW I was in a foul mood last night and I got the discussion off to a foul start. For that I am sorry. 

Kevin

 

At least you figured out it is Alfred and not Edward. 

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No one knows what you are referring to regarding our discussion here about opening the economy of the USA. You are really coming across as a jerk. Stop being so defensive. State your views in a civil manner and use your mind. Just because you are not an expert, doesn't mean you can't voice a well informed opinion on any topic.

Kevin

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8 minutes ago, kevinkin said:

No one knows what you are referring to regarding our discussion here about opening the economy of the USA. You are really coming across as a jerk. Stop being so defensive. State your views in a civil manner and use your mind. Just because you are not an expert, doesn't mean you can't voice a well informed opinion on any topic.

Kevin

LOL  I think I might print and frame this one.

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Boomers...

@kevinkin

If the economy is hurting too much then why not just pump up the economy... I've lost count how many times banks or mega-corporations have recieved bailouts, no questions asked, in my lifetime... in fact they're recieving such bailouts right now.

Why not, for once, demand something similiar for yourselves? Why do UK citizens get 80% of their salary paid whilst you lot get a measly $1200 tax rebate thing?

I very much doubt the UK is richer than the US?

 

@sburke

As to "trust the experts" you & I, together, have already established that North Korea has superior experts... many of our current crop of wonderful experts were telling us to ignore this novel virus & worry about "seasonal flu" not so many weeks ago.

This all got forgotten about quickly didn't it?

Perhaps it would be more productive to help out your fellow citizens by advocating for a financial bailout on their behalf?

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23 hours ago, kevinkin said:

I don't support the POTUS, but I do support those states that are trying to open slowly in a reasonable manner. If we leave this up Fauci, and other unelected Feds in general, we will never open since they are adverse to any risk what-so-ever. All these states are doing is just backing away from shelter in place and opening parts of their economy in a highly regulated manner. States have epidemiologists too. It's their call, not the Feds. Their reputations are on the line. Fauci is going to be 80 at year's end and is embedded in the Washington bureaucracy. Only in Washington does someone keep a senior position like his at such an advanced age. We can't take his sole opinion on opening or not and when and where as gospel. I really hope these states are successful since they could chart a path for the rest of the country.  

Kevin

https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/04/22/there-is-no-empirical-evidence-for-these-lockdowns/

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2020/04/21/behind-protests-two-americas-one-unemployed-and-one-gets-paychecks-column/5167453002/

PS: Just to be clear, I am all for distancing and face coverings once shelter in place orders are lifted. I am not advocating just going back like nothing has happened. 

Hi Kevinkin,

I am just trying to check what you are saying as I think we all agree that the Shelter in Place (lockdown) will need to be lifted, it's just when.

So I think your argument is that the lockdown needs lifting right now? Or should never have been put in place? Is that a fair summary?

None of us want the Lockdowns to stay in place forever. Even though you think Fauci is risk adverse "we will never open" statement seems a bit of a stretch, the experts are just saying we need to open when we have decent measures in place to Track and Trace and control this virus.

I wonder why people are not jumping up and down about Track and Trace not being in place?

Only now are we in the UK getting to that after stopping it when we were inundated with cases.

If America can get it under control then it will be easier to control it going forward.

I think we can all agree that is if no lockdown was put in place there would be more deaths than has been the case? Do you agree with that Kevinkin?

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8 hours ago, 37mm said:

 

@sburke

As to "trust the experts" you & I, together, have already established that North Korea has superior experts... many of our current crop of wonderful experts were telling us to ignore this novel virus & worry about "seasonal flu" not so many weeks ago.

This all got forgotten about quickly didn't it?

Perhaps it would be more productive to help out your fellow citizens by advocating for a financial bailout on their behalf?

err. not sure what that is meant to say.  Is there somewhere you think I have advocated against supporting our populace financially?  I don't think anyone here has advocated against it, it isn't as far as I know a topic of debate.

As to N Korea's superior experts.  What?  The hermit kingdom has no coronavirus deaths.  Anyone even suspected of being infected is shot.

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23 hours ago, Erwin said:

Uh... need to remember that you are using denigrating labeling to describe about half the population of the US.  Can't wait to hear the denigrating labels when Trump wins again in Nov.

Re Payment Protection for small businesses in the US... Be interesting to investigate how many businesses that had over 500 employees fired the excess so that they could qualify for the free money handout to businesses that have under 500.  

 

how is naming those groups a denigrating label? I didnt say that was all that comprised the GOP. however every group mention is pro trump and in say david dukes case trump refused to disavow his support.

second no, its more like a third of the US.

Trump very well may win in November, it doesnt change its a biarre coalition of single issue voters that normally would hate eachother.

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