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Are you guys F'n kidding me?  You really fall for this clap trap?  Good lord.  The panic and hoarding is a sad over reaction, but the ostrich head in the sand attitude is far worse and more dangerous.

That is some logic.  If everyone gets the virus at once, the hospitals get inundated, respirators are already in short supply - result LOTS more people die.  Health care workers that would be needed t

With covid-19 containment and  the time available, I decided !! I bought Red Thunder without waiting Fire and Rubble kept smiling and positive with great thought for Italy  

1 o'clock in the morning
its good
It works
I have more than tested
but already first impression is beautiful, I do not think I will put a lot of mods to improve

5 hours ago, MikeyD said:

An unexpected (short term) benefit of the situation is a number of the Beta testers and scenario designers find themselves stuck at home with nothing to do - except work on the module.

it is a very sad consolation
and that quickly that everyone goes back to work and that this catastrophe is only a chapter in our history books

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2 hours ago, Falaise said:

everyone goes back to work

If you think about it, logically the best way of handling this crisis is if everyone was infected.  Then there would be no reason to not go out and live normally and keep the economy going.

30,000 people die from the flu every year and something like 70,000 die from traffic accidents and many more are seriously injured, but we don’t panic about that.

If we focused on protecting the most vulnerable and let everyone else get sick for 2 weeks, our society & economy would probably be in better shape very much faster. 

All we've accomplished so far is create panic buying and price gauging, the store shelves are empty, and ensure that the pandemic could last thru August (we're told) or longer.

Edited by Erwin
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3 hours ago, Erwin said:

If you think about it, logically the best way of handling this crisis is if everyone was infected.  Then there would be no reason to not go out and live normally and keep the economy going.

30,000 people die from the flu every year and something like 70,000 die from traffic accidents and many more are seriously injured, but we don’t panic about that.

If we focused on protecting the most vulnerable and let everyone else get sick for 2 weeks, our society & economy would probably be in better shape very much faster. 

All we've accomplished so far is create panic buying and price gauging, the store shelves are empty, and ensure that the pandemic could last thru August (we're told) or longer.

That is some logic.  If everyone gets the virus at once, the hospitals get inundated, respirators are already in short supply - result LOTS more people die.  Health care workers that would be needed to treat folks are sick.  The mortality rate for Corona virus is well above that of the flu even by conservative estimates.  In Italy the mortality rate for older folks is close to 19% (overall rate is estimated at around 8%)  Flu rate is around .1%.  Might want to spend a little more time reading up on real facts.  The panic etc is in good part due to our leaders spreading false information and our response coming so late.  

The social distancing that is being encouraged has one major goal - to spread the infection rate over time to allow the health care community to manage the influx - that's it.  It won't stop the virus, but it might keep our healthcare system from collapsing and therefore keep more people alive.  The alternative and the result of what you are proposing is every country becomes Italy - the comparable death rate in the US if we go though that is about 18,000 people in the space of 6 weeks. (had to correct that, googled the wrong info)

Edited by sburke
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3 hours ago, Erwin said:

If you think about it, logically the best way of handling this crisis is if everyone was infected.  Then there would be no reason to not go out and live normally and keep the economy going.

30,000 people die from the flu every year and something like 70,000 die from traffic accidents and many more are seriously injured, but we don’t panic about that.

If we focused on protecting the most vulnerable and let everyone else get sick for 2 weeks, our society & economy would probably be in better shape very much faster. 

All we've accomplished so far is create panic buying and price gauging, the store shelves are empty, and ensure that the pandemic could last thru August (we're told) or longer.

Couldn't agree more. It's mass hysteria and economical suicide at the same time.

 

Edited by Aragorn2002
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Are you guys F'n kidding me?  You really fall for this clap trap?  Good lord.  The panic and hoarding is a sad over reaction, but the ostrich head in the sand attitude is far worse and more dangerous.  That guy basically spun a web of no real facts and you accepted at face value that yep , all is good this is normal?  wtf??  Sorry, wrong.  This is a serious highly infectious and much deadlier disease.  What next?  The pandemic of 1918 was just another cold season?

At least you guys are consistent in where you go for source material.  Won't be surprised at all to hear you watch Seam Hannity, except now he says he always took this seriously.

In the public discussion of the SARS-CoV-2 pandemic in early 2020, Wodarg gained notoriety as an interviewee in video clips typically published on rightwing video channels. There he presented his thesis that SARS-CoV-2 was only one of many similar viruses which usually go undetected as part of an ordinary seasonal period of respiratory infections (casually called flu or cold), and that the worldwide activities to stop the pandemic were only a "hype" caused basically by selective perception of researchers.[4] He detailed his thesis in publications on his personal website.[5] His comments on the COVID 19 pandemic caused criticism from German scientists. Various German media examined Wodarg's claims for accuracy and concluded that his statements would largely contradict the verifiable facts, some statements were neither refutable nor verifiable, but on closer examination proved to be misleading.

Edited by sburke
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9 minutes ago, sburke said:

Are you guys F'n kidding me?  You really fall for this clap trap?  Good lord.  The panic and hoarding is a sad over reaction, but the ostrich head in the sand attitude is far worse and more dangerous.  That guy basically spun a web of no real facts and you accepted at face value that yep , all is good this is normal?  wtf??  Sorry, wrong.  This is a serious highly infectious and much deadlier disease.  What next?  The pandemic of 1918 was just another cold season?

I'm not sure whether I believe him, to be honest. But I like to keep an open mind on matters, which seems to be getting more and more difficult. And no, all is not good and measures have to be taken. But a lockdown? Destroying our own economy for years to come? I have the strong feeling another 2008 is coming and this time perhaps even worse. The reaction on the situation is getting out of balance, that's what worrying me. And in 1918-1919 between 50 to 100 million people died. Among them many young people. Quite different from what's happening now.

Edited by Aragorn2002
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12 hours ago, MikeyD said:

An unexpected (short term) benefit of the situation is a number of the Beta testers and scenario designers find themselves stuck at home with nothing to do - except work on the module.

That's a silver lining for sure.

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we don't yet know what is happening now as this disease has only been here since late November.  The Epidemic of 1918 circled the globe 3x due to reinfection in a world nowhere near as connected as ours.  They didn't even really know what a virus was and their world was already totally disrupted by the war.  This won't be the same for sure.  However to say we are over reacting (and I'm not referring to those idiots buying 100 rolls of toilet paper) by getting people to socially disconnect in order to give our health care system a chance to handle the influx of folks is just wrong.  Think about it - old folks, pregnant women, cancer patients etc etc can't go near a hospital as they could easily die from this.  Respirators are already in short supply with little ability to ramp up to meet demand if the number s rise too quickly.  Yes there is a severe economic cost we are going to pay, no question. The real question though is are we willing to take action and take the economic hit in order to take care of folks, to make sure our healthcare system can manage this?  You ready to risk your parents?  Mine are in their 80s with preexisting respiratory issues.  This WILL kill them.

As to whether to believe that guy - what qualifies him to make that statement?  He has no real expertise, he isn't known in any circles as an expert or viruses or epidemics.  You can get 1% of scientists to say climate change isn't real...so you gonna say you aren't sure whether you believe that 1% versus the 99%?  That dude just spun a bunch of crap with no real facts, WHY would you believe him?

https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2020-03-11/1918-flu-epidemic-coronavirus

Edited by sburke
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31 minutes ago, sburke said:

we don't yet know what is happening now as this disease has only been here since late November.  The Epidemic of 1918 circled the globe 3x due to reinfection in a world nowhere near as connected as ours.  They didn't even really know what a virus was and their world was already totally disrupted by the war.  This won't be the same for sure.  However to say we are over reacting (and I'm not referring to those idiots buying 100 rolls of toilet paper) by getting people to socially disconnect in order to give our health care system a chance to handle the influx of folks is just wrong.  Think about it - old folks, pregnant women, cancer patients etc etc can't go near a hospital as they could easily die from this.  Respirators are already in short supply with little ability to ramp up to meet demand if the number s rise too quickly.  Yes there is a severe economic cost we are going to pay, no question. The real question though is are we willing to take action and take the economic hit in order to take care of folks, to make sure our healthcare system can manage this?  You ready to risk your parents?  Mine are in their 80s with preexisting respiratory issues.  This WILL kill them.

As to whether to believe that guy - what qualifies him to make that statement?  He has no real expertise, he isn't known in any circles as an expert or viruses or epidemics.  You can get 1% of scientists to say climate change isn't real...so you gonna say you aren't sure whether you believe that 1% versus the 99%?  That dude just spun a bunch of crap with no real facts, WHY would you believe him?

https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2020-03-11/1918-flu-epidemic-coronavirus

Perhaps you're right. Time will tell. Let's pray it won't get as bad as feared. Not taking any risks with my parents either. Only visit them to deliver their shopping, which I put in their barn without seeing them. Mother has half a long left, so ANY flue will kill her. But I still have severe hesitations about the economical measures. Something in the middle would be more wise, but as said, time will tell.

Edited by Aragorn2002
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1 hour ago, Aragorn2002 said:

Couldn't agree more. It's mass hysteria and economical suicide at the same time.

 

I think Dr. Wolfgang Wodarg should pack his bags and go help to doctors in Bergamo (they need doctors) instead sitting there and be smart.

https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-italy-army-transport-coffins-bergamo-morgue-crisis-video-2020-3

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41 minutes ago, Aragorn2002 said:

Don't believe everything you read. The Russian fake news brigade is working overtime.

Don't need  Russian news, Italy is my neighbour  country, so we have some informations here in Slovenia. You think people are not dying from cov 19 ?

Our philosopher Slavoj Žižek on corona virus. I know.... Russian's fake news ... But philosopher can't be fake ... He can be  wrong or right .. You decide ..

 

Edited by Ales Dvorak
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6 hours ago, Erwin said:

30,000 people die from the flu every year and something like 70,000 die from traffic accidents and many more are seriously injured, but we don’t panic about that.

I see this statistic thrown around a lot by people who should know better.

It's not true... Health organizations outside China* track a bizarre stat called "Influenza Like Illness"

You can read up on how many completely unrelated forms of illness & death this statistic covers.

In terms of actual evidence of deaths caused by influenza viruses you will have trouble finding significant amounts... in the UK for instance (which also records "tens of thousands" of "influenza like illness" deaths) "only" a few hundred death certificates per year even mention influenza.

Influenza is a problem but it appears to have been exaggerrated in the West by magnitudes of order... hence causing confusion during an actual pandemic.

The reality of the situation is that almost everyone should have been on lockdown when China started building those hospitals & locking down its cities (January 23rd)... a lot of people are going to die because of those failures.

 

*China records a few hundred "flu deaths" a year, sometimes a few score.

Edited by 37mm
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9 hours ago, Erwin said:

If you think about it, logically the best way of handling this crisis is if everyone was infected.  Then there would be no reason to not go out and live normally and keep the economy going.

30,000 people die from the flu every year and something like 70,000 die from traffic accidents and many more are seriously injured, but we don’t panic about that.

If we focused on protecting the most vulnerable and let everyone else get sick for 2 weeks, our society & economy would probably be in better shape very much faster. 

All we've accomplished so far is create panic buying and price gauging, the store shelves are empty, and ensure that the pandemic could last thru August (we're told) or longer.

I work in the medical field.  That's literally the worst possible scenario.  This is several magnitudes more serious than the flu.  The panic buying is a result of poor leadership and people not paying attention (or being unable to be differentiate trustworthy news sources.)   If your news source went from 'Meh....It's like the flu' to 'Holy F*ck!  National emergency!!' in the span of a week, that ought to be a tell.

I stockpiled back in February and have been social distancing for the last two weeks.  You don't need a weatherman....yadda, yadda, yadda 

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Challenge for politicians (and us all) is keeping the patient (country) alive and functioning 6–9–12 months (poss. longer...) while on lockdown undergoing treatment during World War Flu...

20/03/20 Restriction to continue ‘most of a year’

Policies to limit the spread of coronavirus would need to be in place for "at least most of a year" to prevent intensive care units being overwhelmed, according to official scientific advice to the government.

The documents, prepared by the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage), said alternating between more and less strict measures could "plausibly be effective at keeping the number of critical care cases within capacity".

Screenshot-2020-03-17-at-15-11-50--tojpe

 

Impact of non-pharmaceutical interventions (NPIs) to reduce COVID- 19 mortality and healthcare demand

Here is a link to the full text of the Imperial College study of the future course of the infection in the UK and US under various scenarios for government actions.

According to reports, this study has been exceptionally influential on the US and UK governments very recently.

The study simulates the future of the disease with a very detailed and complex model.  Each individual is modeled and different sorts of interactions in schools, at work, and socially are done.  Census data is used to assign simulated individuals to various groupings that interact with each other in different ways.

The conclusions are sobering.  They say there are two basic options.

Option A is suppression with strong lockdown measures.  They conclude this can succeed and keep the disease from spreading to most of the population.  But lockdown measures have to be maintained until an effective vaccine is ready.  When the lockdown is relaxed, the virus comes back.

Option B is mitigation.  The curve is flattened.  Peak health care demand is reduced by 2/3 and deaths by half.  But hundreds of thousands still die and healthcare systems are overwhelmed many times over.

So, crippling economic and social damaged for at least 12-18 months or huge numbers of deaths.

Edited by Wicky
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29 minutes ago, Bud Backer said:

The sad thing is that if the measures undertaken to minimize spread and fatalities are successful, it will be interpreted by many as “gee, I told you this wasn’t so serious.” SMH. 

So what? Just another opinion. Why does everyone always have to say and believe the same things?

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battlefront, a plea from the heart to release Fire and Rubble early

my brother, Jayden, has a serious lung condition that would make COVID-19 nothing but a death sentence to him

however, he is too much of a ladies' man to stay inside as he should, no, he goes to clubs and bars every night, mingling and engaging in the very opposite of social distancing

the only thing that could keep him inside would be the prompt release of Fire and Rubble as his obsession for the fairer sex is only surpassed by that of the late-war Eastern Front of WW2

battlefront, please, you are my and my mother's only hope

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44 minutes ago, Xorg_Xalargsky said:

battlefront, a plea from the heart to release Fire and Rubble early

my brother, Jayden, has a serious lung condition that would make COVID-19 nothing but a death sentence to him

however, he is too much of a ladies' man to stay inside as he should, no, he goes to clubs and bars every night, mingling and engaging in the very opposite of social distancing

the only thing that could keep him inside would be the prompt release of Fire and Rubble as his obsession for the fairer sex is only surpassed by that of the late-war Eastern Front of WW2

battlefront, please, you are my and my mother's only hope

Hmm, sounds like a great way to go...😄

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