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Standing in Foxholes?


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On 3/18/2020 at 4:31 AM, RepsolCBR said:

The 'ditch trenches' looks good and works well imo...

The only downside is that they to some degree ruins FOW...

A 'ditch trench' presumably models a more highly engineered trench system from the slit trench of Combat Mission, which is just a step up from a foxhole. It would be hard to engineer an elaborate WWI-style trench system without the enemy becoming aware of it...

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2 hours ago, Freyberg said:

A 'ditch trench' presumably models a more highly engineered trench system from the slit trench of Combat Mission, which is just a step up from a foxhole. It would be hard to engineer an elaborate WWI-style trench system without the enemy becoming aware of it...

I agree With this completally 😎

In situations where the defensive possitions are likely to be well scouted/known  by the attacker...

'Ditch trenches' could/should be used.

I do it myself...

Edited by RepsolCBR
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one of the big advantages of the ditch trench is that very few scenarios actually utilize them so most players aren't going to be on the lookout. I only really know about them from some scenario design I did but can't ever recall seeing any of official scenarios/campaigns and only very rarely in user-made scenarios.

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11 hours ago, RepsolCBR said:

'Ditch trenches' could/should be used.

Aren't ditches easily spotted by the attacker if he scrolls to see the map from higher up? Ditch trenches would in that case be easily spotted if there are a few of them in an area.

Edited by BornGinger
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Like I said most maps don't use them so players generally don't expect them.

But, at least in WW2, you don't have the means to totally trash things just because you see them. Knowing there is a trench line and neutralizing it are generally separate issues and you can still use standard FOW trenches to create ambush positions nearby.

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1 hour ago, BornGinger said:

Aren't ditches easily spotted by the attacker if he scrolls to see the map from higher up? Ditch trenches would in that case be easily spotted if there are a few of them in an area.

Yes...That is the one downside to ditch trenches as far as i know.

But like Freyberg and myself mentioned above...in some situations it does really not matter all that much if they are recognizable from far away...

Sort of simulating that the enemy possition is known to the attacker...through areal recon, scouting Or previous fighting...

If designing a scenario With rather large defensive trenchsystems it might look...a bit wierd to first see all the ditches and only then After a short while they Will be filled in with trenches...

To avoid this the defending trenches could be picked as friendly trenches  (from the attacking side)...This way they Will all be there from the get-go...

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trenches in my games (pic from a CMBN mission). -1 m ditches and no sandbag mod applied. (Note: sandbag geometry is still there though invisible). Ingame they´re offering usual (lack of) protection with bits of the terrain mesh added as extra. They´re also level with the ground, at least visually. Added to this my animation mod that keeps pixeltroopers low in majority of cases when not moving.

RHZ_YEG_4_Trenches.thumb.jpg.dd5a0e1441e8c675fa52b6c15a994106.jpgConcerns with FOW. If player cam remains at ground level (house rule), none. The AIP doesn´t care on "suspicious" terrain anyway, unless helped or made aware by use of terrain triggers etc.

Player tactics (also applicable for AIP setup). Foxholes and trenches are usually spotted (automatically) around the ~400m mark. Keep enemy at a distance as long as possible and/or place entrenchments on any sort of backslope terrain (behind terrain mesh or objects).

All measures combined at least provide me with an enjoyable and fairly realistic game experience. B)

 

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7 hours ago, RockinHarry said:

trenches in my games (pic from a CMBN mission). -1 m ditches and no sandbag mod applied. (Note: sandbag geometry is still there though invisible). Ingame they´re offering usual (lack of) protection with bits of the terrain mesh added as extra. They´re also level with the ground, at least visually. Added to this my animation mod that keeps pixeltroopers low in majority of cases when not moving.

RHZ_YEG_4_Trenches.thumb.jpg.dd5a0e1441e8c675fa52b6c15a994106.jpg...

That's a really nice, realistic looking trench :)

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  • 1 year later...
On 3/19/2020 at 7:33 PM, RockinHarry said:

All measures combined at least provide me with an enjoyable and fairly realistic game experience. B)

Those trenches do look way better. Is there a mod for sandbagless trenches Harry, or am I just missing something here?

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3 hours ago, Lucky_Strike said:

Those trenches do look way better. Is there a mod for sandbagless trenches Harry, or am I just missing something here?

I just shared via dropbox link. Never pushed this one (and couple other minor mods) to mod warehouse yet. So here it is again: https://www.dropbox.com/s/kjiy5n9j6xu5u5g/sandbags.rar?dl=0

Note: As said this one makes all sandbags "invisible". Trenches and Foxholes are affected. Not sure on the L shaped wall ATM. Should work in all titles AFAIK. Unpack and drop to data/z as usual. 😎

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On 3/18/2020 at 11:58 PM, weapon2010 said:

ok so your confirming the issue?

Well, I've never noticed it before, so I would say definitily something to look into. You don't want your unit surprised by an artillery barrage like that.

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20 hours ago, RockinHarry said:

I just shared via dropbox link. Never pushed this one (and couple other minor mods) to mod warehouse yet. So here it is again: https://www.dropbox.com/s/kjiy5n9j6xu5u5g/sandbags.rar?dl=0

Note: As said this one makes all sandbags "invisible". Trenches and Foxholes are affected. Not sure on the L shaped wall ATM. Should work in all titles AFAIK. Unpack and drop to data/z as usual.

Great, thanks for these Harry. Only bugbear I can see is that even invisible sandbags can still cast shadows! Regardless they look a whole lot better at ground level and the shadows only really appear when up close. Cheers again!

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Lucky_Strike said:

Great, thanks for these Harry. Only bugbear I can see is that even invisible sandbags can still cast shadows! Regardless they look a whole lot better at ground level and the shadows only really appear when up close. Cheers again!

Yes it´s all just cosmetic, but does the purpose. 😎 Btw. sandbag walls become all invisible since they use the same bitmap file. Anyway... there´s little what one can do with them. A same and better effect can be achieved by using ditch locked terrain (gun pits, tank pits etc.) IMO.

Edit: Just made a quick fix to have just the "sandbag walls" visible again (in case invisible sandbags mod for FH´s and trenches is used). Made a renamed copy of original "sandbags.bmp" (sandbagx.bmp) and referenced to it by changing file name in associated sandbag wall MDR files. In case someone needs it, I´ll upload at dropbox.

Edited by RockinHarry
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You know, guys on the back side of sloped ground will stand up in order to see what's in front of them.
I don't know what's worse, the complaint about your troops attempting to see what's directly in front of them, or the decision to place foxholes in a position that cannot see anything without standing up in the first place.

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On 4/30/2021 at 9:20 PM, RockinHarry said:

I just shared via dropbox link. Never pushed this one (and couple other minor mods) to mod warehouse yet. So here it is again: https://www.dropbox.com/s/kjiy5n9j6xu5u5g/sandbags.rar?dl=0

Note: As said this one makes all sandbags "invisible". Trenches and Foxholes are affected. Not sure on the L shaped wall ATM. Should work in all titles AFAIK. Unpack and drop to data/z as usual. 😎

Does this work in all titles or only WW2?

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4 hours ago, Erwin said:

Does this work in all titles or only WW2?

can´t test, but I´d believe yes since all basic objects are shared among all titles usually. Just textures differ. The bmp has its alpha layer painted beeing opaque. So at last doesn´t matter what´s beneath (or hidden by) it. Just place some FH or trenches and see yourself. 😎

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16 hours ago, RockinHarry said:

Just made a quick fix to have just the "sandbag walls" visible again (in case invisible sandbags mod for FH´s and trenches is used). Made a renamed copy of original "sandbags.bmp" (sandbagx.bmp) and referenced to it by changing file name in associated sandbag wall MDR files. In case someone needs it, I´ll upload at dropbox.

Now that's a neat trick, I guess we could do that with foxholes or trenches as well if we just want one or the other to have sandbags. Got me wondering where else this sort of trick might be helpful, certainly gonna keep a note of it. Cheers Harry!

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9 hours ago, Lucky_Strike said:

Now that's a neat trick, I guess we could do that with foxholes or trenches as well if we just want one or the other to have sandbags. Got me wondering where else this sort of trick might be helpful, certainly gonna keep a note of it. Cheers Harry!

Yes, exactly. There´s a number of applications for MDR file hacking as various CM modders have shown over the past years. Think it´s been done for foliage, uniforms, gear and other stuff already. Btw can you suggest some graphics app that loads and saves CM 32Bit BMP files? I used to work with some old Paintshop Pro version on my WinXP machine in the past. Now need something for Win10. Gimp still does not recognize 32 Bit files on load, so the alpha layer gets lost unfortunately. Don´t need a pro solution, like Photoshop and the like. Paintshop Pro, now under Corel´s hood seems still appropiate maybe.🤔

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On 3/16/2020 at 12:19 AM, weapon2010 said:

Why are my men standing in foxholes? makes no sense!

 

Refering back to OP. Had bits of a closer look now. In fact the pixeltroopers just made partial use of the foxholes so the "issue" if it exists might not relate to them directly. When considering "cover" (on the AS´s 1x1m terrain mesh level), slopes do take precedence usually. Same reason why soldiers in same AS with some craters do prefer these over foxholes. At least sometimes. Same when foxholes aren´t placed on even/level ground like in example above. So whatever makes some the soldiers standing up likely has more to do what they try looking at. I think spotting attempts are not solely aimed at enemies but to friendlies as well (maintain C2). Anyway, when in doubt about soldiers stances, always use hide and CA´s.

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4 hours ago, RockinHarry said:

Don´t need a pro solution, like Photoshop and the like. Paintshop Pro, now under Corel´s hood seems still appropiate maybe.🤔

Harry, I have Corel’s PSP 2019 version, and have had earlier ones. You can save 32bit files in their “.pspimage” format for working with alpha channels, but you can’t save them in .bmp format. I was counting on Gimp or maybe Paint.net. No dice there, huh?

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13 hours ago, RockinHarry said:

Btw can you suggest some graphics app that loads and saves CM 32Bit BMP files? I used to work with some old Paintshop Pro version on my WinXP machine in the past. Now need something for Win10.

Sorry, Harry, I'm strictly a PhotoShop boy, I have to use it professionally so it's what I know and use for CM mods. I'm surprised Gimp doesn't handle the files easily. What about PhotoShop Elements, it supports import/export of BMPs according to this page. Used to come free with lots of cameras and the like, suspect older versions would still work under Win10. I'm sure I used it in the past on Windows to open mod files. Otherwise I've seen folks mention Pixelformer as an intermediary, it can open and export 32bit BMPs with alpha channels, but have never used it so can't vouch for it.

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Don´t need a pro solution

Harry for my part,  Paint net dont accept the transparence or only when you save it in png, than save your file in bmp with a simple prg that I use myself, Greenfish icon editor, delete the part that you want it in transparence and save your file in bmp !

hope this help you !

JM 

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