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Thanks George, that's pretty much what I thought.  I am sadly an editor virgin but I'm tempted.

Also, sat there (or rather stood after I'd opened up 😉) once more as Wittmann I felt like doing it all again, but of course it would be different knowing what to expect.

Plus I still have to finish Villers Bocage, which is where I'm going now ❤️.

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AAR Wittman Demise George MC Here is a scenario that I have been watching since I got the game. I opened it, I looked at the superb map, I recognize the places. But I'm not going to spoil it. Co

Mon dieu @Falaise my sympathies.  You may have seen earlier in the thread that was not my experience of the battle, in which there was no demise.  I would say " if at first you dont succeed" but of co

I don’t know whether to laugh or cry! Uhhhh, better luck next time?

Okay, so after a brief interlude, I finally finished Villers Bocage.  Probably should be posted somewhere else but anyway...

A fine game @George MC with some unexpected twists and nasty surprises.  Or perhaps not so unexpected after playing a few of your scenarios 😉.    Not played historically of course, and Swoboda and Hantusch were top scorers, not Wittmann, but here's my result:

Combat Mission Battle For Normandy Screenshot 2020.09.29 - 23.11.25.56.png

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15 hours ago, Vacilllator said:

Okay, so after a brief interlude, I finally finished Villers Bocage.  Probably should be posted somewhere else but anyway...

A fine game @George MC with some unexpected twists and nasty surprises.  Or perhaps not so unexpected after playing a few of your scenarios 😉.    Not played historically of course, and Swoboda and Hantusch were top scorers, not Wittmann, but here's my result:

Combat Mission Battle For Normandy Screenshot 2020.09.29 - 23.11.25.56.png

Well that's impressive!

When playtesting this I did, err, not very well!

Hope you liked the wee twist? ;) 

SPOILER ALERT - highlight text below to see

IIRC it was slightly ahistorcial given that from around 30 minutes on the latter part of the action makes the assumption that Bill Cotton from B Squadron managed to find a way through Villers Bocage on it’s southern side. This bit of pathfinding allows the rest of B Squadron to follow and attempt a counterattack against the Germans.

I must admit I shyed away from doing this for a long time thinking this would never work in CM. Its good to see it does and whilst it allows the player to recreate and play about with a famous (infamous?) event it also provides an enjoyable mission.

Thanks for playing it and cheers for the support and positive vibes! :)

Cheery!

 

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1 hour ago, George MC said:

Well that's impressive!

Thanks George, appreciate it and your efforts in making the scenario.  It has joined my favourites list (not all are yours but you are well represented 😉).

Yes, the twist stopped me in my tracks, or is that on my tracks?  You may recall me earlier mentioning a sound contact in that area.  Well, of course that developed into something I could not ignore, so I had to commit quite a force to stop it.  Meanwhile I was wary of infantry, not to mention the AT guns and tanks in the direction I was trying to go.  I used every available unit I could (even remnants of crews) for spotting and recon, doing whatever I could to gets eyes on, plus of course I had good old Rolf to help.

How on earth Wittmann managed it on his own I don't know.  Surprise and luck in no small measure I suppose.

 

 

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5 hours ago, Vacilllator said:

How on earth Wittmann managed it on his own I don't know.  Surprise and luck in no small measure I suppose.

He was aided by the Limey need to stop for a cuppa.

Probably the only way to recreate it in CM would be to have a large number of their vehicles "dismounted". 

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30 minutes ago, Warts 'n' all said:

He was aided by the Limey need to stop for a cuppa.

I agree, that's what we read in the history books.  Not sure how true it is, but I quite like a cuppa (of tea) in the morning, coffee in the afternoon and something stronger later on 😮.

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When I recently gave this a go as the Limeys against the AI I did impose a few rules upon myself.

The vehicles at Point 213 are all open to replicate the crews chatting to one another. But, no orders can be issued to them either during the set up phase or on Turn 1.

The two half-tracks on the main road must be given "Quick" orders straight up the road.

The remaining vehicles on the side of the road, and those in Villers-Bocage itself are not allowed to move or be given target orders on Turn 1.

No artillery missions can be called in until at least one enemy contact icon can be seen by the FO at Point 213. 

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23 minutes ago, Warts 'n' all said:

When I recently gave this a go as the Limeys against the AI I did impose a few rules upon myself.

I admire your replication of 'let's get a brew on'.  Tea of course, not a tank. 

I wonder though whether the poor British were really having a jolly cup of tea, or whether they were perhaps totally exhausted and getting a few minutes of sleep?  We know that Wittmann didn't have much sleep before the later battles and that didn't end well...

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47 minutes ago, Vacilllator said:

I agree, that's what we read in the history books.  Not sure how true it is, but I quite like a cuppa (of tea) in the morning, coffee in the afternoon and something stronger later on 😮.

Afternoon coffee explains why you need to take something stronger in the evening to sleep!
you can use this to justify the strongest ...

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2 hours ago, Warts 'n' all said:

He was aided by the Limey need to stop for a cuppa.

Probably the only way to recreate it in CM would be to have a large number of their vehicles "dismounted". 

Sorry to interject here but I can see the need for a modded flavour object - kettle, couple of mugs and a nice little tea caddy - come on there must be someone out there who can make this? 

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22 hours ago, Warts 'n' all said:

and in those days the banks shut at 3pm. It also has to be remembered that the Middle Saxons were never as tough as you western boys

We risk going off-topic (again) but never mind.  Round here most of the bank branches were closed in recent years, so 3pm closure is no more than a pleasant memory if you can't scan in the cheque that someone has kindly sent you instead of paying online.  Government organisations included, that insist you pay them online.  Spleen vented 😉.

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56 minutes ago, Warts 'n' all said:

In the meantime the Limeys have just dropped a ton of arty on my Jerries.  Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

As was the way back then, added to by airpower which in some ways I'm thankful we don't have to worry about in CM.  Is your attempt to break up the tea party going well, apart from the artillery?

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30 minutes ago, Vacilllator said:

As was the way back then, added to by airpower which in some ways I'm thankful we don't have to worry about in CM.  Is your attempt to break up the tea party going well, apart from the artillery?

Ah, sorry that comment was about "Demise" which I am playing now, rather than about Swords/Tea party.

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55 minutes ago, Vacilllator said:

Of course, my mistake.  Must pay closer attention to which thread I'm in 🤪.  So there has been no demise yet I assume?

Well both battles have been mentioned in this thread, so your mistake is perfectly understandable.

And "no", so far there has been no demise. With 56 minutes left on the clock Micky and his mates have made good progress down the left, although one Tiger lost it's main gun.

But, in the centre three PzIV's got taken out on the previous turn. And on the right my infantry got hammered.

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1 hour ago, Warts 'n' all said:

Well both battles have been mentioned in this thread, so your mistake is perfectly understandable.

You are most kind, but looking back it was me who first mentioned Villers Bocage in a thread about Demise so I am to blame for my own mistake.

Your results so far are very close to mine, including the lost main gun, although I sent the Tigers over to the edge of the woods on the right to start with.  Good luck!

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3 hours ago, Vacilllator said:

Your results so far are very close to mine, including the lost main gun, although I sent the Tigers over to the edge of the woods on the right to start with.  Good luck!

Thanks.

I won't do too many progress reports, as I don't wish to spoil it for people who have yet to try it. But, it is well worth a go if forumites haven't fought it yet.

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On 9/30/2020 at 10:27 PM, Warts 'n' all said:

Probably the only way to recreate it in CM would be to have a large number of their vehicles "dismounted".

Sadly I believe that will turn them into ammo-dumps in the current engine...More dismounting options would be very cool (the option for x-crewing would be even cooler).

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Finally, I finished my PBEM game of Wittmans Demise. I played the Germans and scored a tactical victory, killed 43 tanks but lost 29. Wittmann survived (with Dollinger and von Westernhagen).

Extremely exciting scenario. I was about to give up a couple of times. Each time when I thought „I‘ve done it! That‘s it now!“ some more Shermans popped up.

I don‘t want to spoil the scenario for others, so just my two highlights:

- Von Westerhagen single handedly saved the left flank and cleared the farm west of Gaumnesil (La Maisonette, I believe) with his Tiger from 3 Shermans in (almost) hand to hand combat. 🤓

- After missing twice, Wittmann scored the last kill precisely in the last second of the regular playing time.🍾

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On 9/30/2020 at 11:16 PM, Warts 'n' all said:

When I recently gave this a go as the Limeys against the AI I did impose a few rules upon myself.

The vehicles at Point 213 are all open to replicate the crews chatting to one another. But, no orders can be issued to them either during the set up phase or on Turn 1.

The two half-tracks on the main road must be given "Quick" orders straight up the road.

The remaining vehicles on the side of the road, and those in Villers-Bocage itself are not allowed to move or be given target orders on Turn 1.

No artillery missions can be called in until at least one enemy contact icon can be seen by the FO at Point 213. 

When I started doing the OOB and placing the British units I had decided to have the crews bailed out of the tanks initially. Then I found, very quickly, you couldn't do this as a/ the crews would not stay bailed out and b/ its really difficult to work out which crew goes into which tank and c/ the AI can't do remounting. So the concept lasted until first contact with the 3d editor.

The main challenge with replicating such ambush type situations is the player being ambushed knows they are about to be ambushed. In RL these guys had no idea a Tiger unit was a few hundred meters away or that it was going to attack them until it did.

If the player tries tackling this like Wittmann did for real against either a human or AI opponent it often does not end well for his tank, although TBH in RL Wittmann's Tiger soon was knocked out taking him out of the rest of the action in fairly quick time. IIRC Schneider in Tigers in Combat (himself an ex Bundeswehr armour officer) is pretty dismissive of Wittmann's tactical acumen.

And the bit that is often overlooked is that whilst Wittmann's unit achieved some local surprise the unit lost more Tigers than it could afford. Its an interesting action to analysis as there is more to it than the 30 minutes of Wittmann's charge.

Anyways playing with house rules like you did will go some way to levelling the initial playing field. Hope and trust you enjoyed it?

Cheery!

 

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On 10/3/2020 at 4:59 PM, StieliAlpha said:

Finally, I finished my PBEM game of Wittmans Demise. I played the Germans and scored a tactical victory, killed 43 tanks but lost 29. Wittmann survived (with Dollinger and von Westernhagen).

Extremely exciting scenario. I was about to give up a couple of times. Each time when I thought „I‘ve done it! That‘s it now!“ some more Shermans popped up.

I don‘t want to spoil the scenario for others, so just my two highlights:

- Von Westerhagen single handedly saved the left flank and cleared the farm west of Gaumnesil (La Maisonette, I believe) with his Tiger from 3 Shermans in (almost) hand to hand combat. 🤓

- After missing twice, Wittmann scored the last kill precisely in the last second of the regular playing time.🍾

Good job! I played this as PBEM a while back and err faired less well. My oppo just seemed to keep popping up Shermans to nail my Tigers in their flanks. We'd also a close range armoured knife fight going on in in St Aignan which was costly to my forces.

Glad you enjoyed it :)

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26 minutes ago, George MC said:

Anyways playing with house rules like you did will go some way to levelling the initial playing field. Hope and trust you enjoyed it?

Cheery!

 

Thanks for your explanation re-dismounted crews.

And yes, I have enjoyed both "Swords" and "Demise" immensely. The maps are great to look over and fight on. 

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