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3 minutes ago, Combatintman said:

Fixed that for you mate ‚Ķ stuck in Kabul until not sure when (middle of April or end of May on current planning figures) ūüė≤

Best of luck over there in such times!
Even though it's pandemic time here, I'm thankful to be/live in NL.

And indeed, wish everyone well during these times!

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Well.. all I know is my reply which you quoted was tongue in cheek.. can't say the same for yours.  I for one feel extremely lucky that the CMx2 series exists in as many forms as it does. B

So the British Ministry of Defense is subsidizing me playing w my toy soliders & tanks?  And all I have to do for this is wait a little longer for the new release?  I am considering this a win for

The only thing worse than 1940s Nazis is a present day Nazi. One might argue the populace 80 years ago were na√Įf about just what sort of monsters they were supporting. You can't make that argument now

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On 3/22/2020 at 12:30 PM, Lille Fiskerby said:

The Soviets didnt but the germans used stuka divebombers for precision bombing sometimes very close to the frontline, this would be great to have available in CMRT.

The Germans had long given up daylight divebombing attacks with Ju 87s by 1944.

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6 hours ago, LukeFF said:

The Germans had long given up daylight divebombing attacks with Ju 87s by 1944.

That's something a lot of people seem to not know about. The early-war divebombing mania sputtered out around 1943 in favor of the faster Fw 190 which became Germany's ubiquitous fighter-bomber.

Edited by Frenchy56
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On 3/20/2020 at 7:02 AM, Battlefront.com said:

For Fire and Rubble?  Not much.  I'd have to check, but I don't think there was a lot of changes to equipment for those two areas between late Summer 1944 and Spring 1945.

I think, 203 mm B-4 howitzer must be included in the on-map artillery list. These heavy guns were in High Command Artillery Reserve and actively used in urban combat, though direct fire wasn't provided in B-4 field manual. But their overkill power (it also named "Stalin's maul") turned out useful during breakthrough of heavy fortified lines (direst shot destruction of bunkers) and in battles in the cities, which had old strong stone buildings, which could resist even to 122/152 mm shells of IS/SU/ISU, for example assault of Ternopil in Western Ukarine in 1944.  During assault of Berlin, one B-4 from high-power artillery brigade usually was attaching to one rifle battalion. Sometimes, guns used from the distanse of 200 m to the enemy and shot through the smoke screen. In urban combat also widely used high-power systems Br-2 (152 mm) and Br-5 (280 mm)

berlin-15.jpg

gaubitsa-b-4-15.jpeg

B-4 on the Berlin street, towed by Voroshilovets heavy artillery tractor

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On 2/29/2020 at 8:51 PM, MikeyD said:

In the '80s the struggling Harley Davidson landed a contract to cast artillery shell bodies for the Pentagon, which allowed the company to remain alive for another 40 years.

Interesting story, but I can find nothing on Google about it. Anyone knows anything about this?

 

 

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7 hours ago, Haiduk said:

I think, 203 mm B-4 howitzer must be included in the on-map artillery list

In the current version of the game on map artillery is very slow and vulnerable. If 45-mm and 76-mm guns could be tweaked a little, so soldiers would move guns quicker and hide behind shields... In my opinion sloped 7mm gun shield protected no worse than APC armor. 

203 guns would be easy target without tweaking guns protection, MGs would suppress them easily.

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3 hours ago, DerKommissar said:

Agreed, they're too iconic to miss. 

AcademicRashBagworm-size_restricted.gif

I hope you realize that scenes like these were filmed in Berlin after the battle was over - just wanton destruction for propaganda effect. Then, of course, there was the raping of nearly every women (regardless of age) and girl in Berlin. Can't look at scenes like this without getting sick thinking about the rest.

I had a German teacher who I met up with in Berlin - long ago. She had been raised in Berlin, but did not know about the Soviet monument at Treptower Park (below).  I told her the story that the communists had circulated about the monument - that a Soviet soldier during the battle for the Reichstag had rescued a German girl wandering in the street and that this represented the Soviet Union leading "the new Germany" (communist East Germany) to the grand socialist future. My teacher, who was quite a reserved and dignified woman, did not hesitate in her response - and I will never forget it:

"So when did he find the time to do that, in between raping her mother and her sister?"

image.jpeg.d41d9195ef14cc54dd0541bc0c5bcabc.jpeg

 

Edited by BluecherForward
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1 hour ago, BluecherForward said:

Can't look at scenes like this without getting sick thinking about the rest.

When you say "the rest" I presume you are talking about the systematic massacres of entire villages in Poland and all points East (not forgetting Oradour-sur-Glane in France of course) that the Germans came across?  Or was it the rape of women before they were gassed?  For the folks who lost their entire families in WW2 thanks to the civilizing effects of the German Army & SS, there may not be quite the same sense of indignation.

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16 minutes ago, Erwin said:

When you say "the rest" I presume you are talking about the systematic massacres of entire villages in Poland and all points East (not forgetting Oradour-sur-Glane in France of course) that the Germans came across?  Or was it the rape of women before they were gassed?  For the folks who lost their entire families in WW2 thanks to the civilizing effects of the German Army & SS, there may not be quite the same sense of indignation.

Thanks for the straw man morality lesson - of course I agree with everything you point out. I hate the Nazis and what they did - more than you could possibly know.  The point of my original post was twofold - that films of the use of heavy artillery weapons in the streets of Berlin were pure propaganda produced after the battle was over and - secondly - that people need to be careful about glorifying the communist "liberators."

I notice that you make no criticism of the comments above that make jokes about the systematic - and officially permitted - raping of an entire female population - including children. That tells me a lot.

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2 hours ago, BluecherForward said:

Thanks for the straw man morality lesson - of course I agree with everything you point out. I hate the Nazis and what they did - more than you could possibly know.  The point of my original post was twofold - that films of the use of heavy artillery weapons in the streets of Berlin were pure propaganda produced after the battle was over and - secondly - that people need to be careful about glorifying the communist "liberators."

I notice that you make no criticism of the comments above that make jokes about the systematic - and officially permitted - raping of an entire female population - including children. That tells me a lot.

Yeah whatever the Nazis did doesn't excuse atrocities on the other side.  You either stand for morality or you don't.  You can't stand for morality on just one side.

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1 hour ago, sburke said:

Yeah whatever the Nazis did doesn't excuse atrocities on the other side.  You either stand for morality or you don't.  You can't stand for morality on just one side.

Agreed, but here we are talking about the inclusion of a howitzer on map or off map. Not about the atrocitiesvcommitted by different parties. I don't think anyone here applauds what happened to german woman in 1945.

 

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5 hours ago, Erwin said:

When you say "the rest" I presume you are talking about the systematic massacres of entire villages in Poland and all points East (not forgetting Oradour-sur-Glane in France of course) that the Germans came across?  Or was it the rape of women before they were gassed?  For the folks who lost their entire families in WW2 thanks to the civilizing effects of the German Army & SS, there may not be quite the same sense of indignation.

But these facts are well documentated and widely condemned, aren't they? The mass rape of millions of women AND children (and not only in Germany, but also in 'liberated' Russia, Poland, Hungary, Rumania, Bulgaria, the Baltic states and so on and so forth) and all the other attrocities of the Red Army are mostly ignored. It should be possible to condemn that without being accused of defending the attrocities of the Nazis. On the other hand, I guess it's just shame about making a pact with the devil in the name of freedom and justice to defeat another one.

But I agree with Lethaface. Better let it rest. Especially on this forum.

Edited by Aragorn2002
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3 hours ago, MikeyD said:

The only thing worse than 1940s Nazis is a present day Nazi. One might argue the populace 80 years ago were na√Įf about just what sort of monsters they were supporting. You can't make that argument now.

So who is a present day Nazi, Mikey?  Please, tell us, instead of insinuating. Who is supporting who exactly?

Steve made it quite clear that such insults, even in a covered version, are not allowed here.

Edited by Aragorn2002
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59 minutes ago, Lethaface said:

 

Agreed, but here we are talking about the inclusion of a howitzer on map or off map. 

 

The pictures by @Haiduk do not seem to be staged. What is interesting is that in the first the howitzer is firing in almost a flat trajectory, maybe from an elevated position? In the second one, given the elevation of the gun, it looks definitely like indirect fire.

I am with @DMS, I think that using such guns on the field was more of a spur of the moment tactical expedient (like the use of the self-propelled 155mm's in Aachen), than a standard operating procedure. Given the more static nature of the fighting in Berlin, I think it is reasonable to assume that Soviet battalions in the city had access to wired comms, enabling to call in support fire from the howitzers (and assuming as well that by "attached" it was meant "on call" for a battalion).

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They'd certainly be fun, but not really a 'must have'...

On a lighter note, I manage to argue politics and history with friends and strangers all over the world on a number of different Social Media channels, and yet still not bring any of it into this forum. ūüėē

...be like Freyberg...

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1 hour ago, Freyberg said:

They'd certainly be fun, but not really a 'must have'...

I meant such historical situation must be reflected in the module  that Red Army encoutered with heavy fortified city defense (and not only in Berlin). Poznan, Kenigsberg, Praga and many other, so not only usual infantry support weapon couldn't deal with it, but even often 152 mm SP-guns. Though on other hand, buildings in CM has big disproportions in defensive capabilities. Their roofs easyly resist direct hits of 120-152 mm calibres, but infantry inside has a poor protection from small arms evan this building is looks strong. 

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I would like to see them on map. They would be useful for the assault on heavy fortified strongpoints (heavy buildings, bunkers, etc). The urban fighting in Berlin features, afaik, many battles for fortified buildings / streets.

The B-4 seems authentic for this.

With the 155mm SP long tom in CMFB, the Sturm Tiger and AVRE I think there is plenty of similar 'over powered' semi direct fire units in CMx2 game already. A scenario designer can always choose not to include them. Also, they probably won't be that useful apart from destruction of fortified positions because it would take a long time moving around.

Like @BletchleyGeek , I think it is probable that direct fire usage of such things is more of a 'bottom up' thing than a 'top down' thing. 
 

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2 minutes ago, Haiduk said:

I meant such historical situation must be reflected in the module  that Red Army encoutered with heavy fortified city defense (and not only in Berlin). Poznan, Kenigsberg, Praga and many other, so not only usual infantry support weapon couldn't deal with it, but even often 152 mm SP-guns. Though on other hand, buildings in CM has big disproportions in defensive capabilities. Their roofs easyly resist direct hits of 120-152 mm calibres, but infantry inside has a poor protection from small arms evan this building is looks strong. 

Each to his own, but personally I don't enjoy urban fighting and I'm not looking forward it. For me CM excells in longer distance fighting in fields, woods and smaller villages.

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If any changes are made...I would much prefer to be able to asign off-map artillery to AI groups rather then having them on the map...

Not the same thing...i know¬†ūüė鬆But that¬†would be a nice change imo...

To be able to use the 'area target trick' with all artillery assets...

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