ASL Veteran Posted April 24, 2021 Share Posted April 24, 2021 Photographs are almost useless as proof of anything unless the context is iron clad (many photos are incorrectly labeled). If they are looking over the vehicle in June 1945 then it's irrelevant where they are located because there is no way to know how it got there or when. You would have to come up with 'Unit such and such was equipped with X Sturmtiger's and they were located / used in town Y. The one used in Warsaw actually was crewed by non soldiers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Dare Posted April 24, 2021 Share Posted April 24, 2021 (edited) @ASL VeteranASL...why don't you check the unit history and move along... in fact there were only two in action from august to october (i was wrongly recalling 3 ) On August 12, 1944 an entry in the 9th Army records indicates a battery of 3 vehicles of 38 cm Sturm-Mörser with the first arriving on August 13th. There is indication that one of the vehicles is an experimental unit which likely means this is a prototype. August 14th notation indicates that 3 Tiger mit 38cm Werfer are expected with the first arriving on the 14tht or 15th. On August 15th one Tiger has arrived at Blonie at 11:09 hours and that a second Tiger is expected on the 16th. On August 17th the second Tiger arrives and there is never mention of a third Tiger with 38cm Werfer again. The daily panzer inventory report shows 2 Panzer VI with 38 cm. The daily panzer inventory continues to show 2 vehicles until October 10th after which time they no longer show up. There is no documentation that I have found in the 9.AOK records that indicates if the units have been reassigned at this time however on October 15th there is a note that Stum-Mrs.Kp.1000 would be on transport to XXXXVI.Pz.K. in Budapest on October 16th 1944. The company with both Sturmtigers was loaded on a train and sent to Hungary on October 17th. The train is then immediately returned to Warsaw but apparently with only a single Sturmtiger. This Sturmtiger arrived in Warsaw-West on October 20th at 00:10 hours. The single Sturmtiger left in Hungary may have been captured by the Russians and could be the Sturmtiger currently in Kubinka. Beginning on October 21st Sturm-Mörse Kp.1000 again shows up on the daily panzer inventory of the 9 Army but showing only a single vehicle. It remains on this report until November 19th. On November 18th, 1944 the unit appears on the 9th Army shipment report indicating it would be leaving Warsaw on November the 22nd on train number 231 295 with a destination of Tr.Üb.-Platz Sennelager. A notation on the report of November 23 indicated that the unit left on the scheduled train on November 22 at 18:22 hours. Edited April 24, 2021 by Dan Dare 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASL Veteran Posted April 24, 2021 Share Posted April 24, 2021 You are the one trying to get it into the game not me. That's better info than the photo by itself. Did they engage in any action or did they just move around on trains? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Dare Posted April 24, 2021 Share Posted April 24, 2021 (edited) unquote Edited April 24, 2021 by Dan Dare 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASL Veteran Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 Incidentally we already know about the two that were assigned to 9th Army but those were prototypes that used light steel superstructures so you are going to have to find some different Sturmtigers. Here is from Guderian "To the Army Group, for the purpose of its being put to use in Warsaw - on August 14, dispatched: one Tiger, with a 38cm rocket firing ramp (test model), which is not suitable for use against anti-tank forces, as it is made of light steel." General von Vormann said the following about those Sturmtigers "They have only factory personnel who can't shoot" So those two Sturmtigers that you are referring to above were prototypes made of light steel not actual production model vehicles with actual armor on them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoMac Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 (edited) I thought at one point awhile ago that, BF, said something like "If at least one Vehicle was likely to be at a particular Front and Date that it would be included in the game". This way it will cover the possibility of that Vehicle being there, and not have to worry about taking the time/resources to micro-management research in order to see if there was none, one or 100 vehicles present. Edited April 25, 2021 by JoMac 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Dare Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Dare Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 @ASL Veteranthe nbr 250043 does not sound as a prototype... move along...I'm playing... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artkin Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 4 hours ago, Battlefront.com said: Upgrade 5 will focus on performance improvements to take better advantage of newer hardware. Some other things are planned as well, but no details yet. Steve Ah I missed this one. Hell yes. CM is doing everything right. Very glad to hear this. The game runs amazing once everything loads. But before that, it's tough. On a side note, I love the CMFR maps. Ironically my gpu broke so I can't play the huge maps I've been whining about. I have to edit them under 10km^2 just to use them. With the current state of the GPU industry seems I'm going to be waiting longer.... This module is crazier than MG. Confirmed! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akd Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 38 minutes ago, Dan Dare said: @ASL Veteranthe nbr 250043 does not sound as a prototype... move along...I'm playing... 250043 was assigned to Sturmmörser Kp. 1001 in the West... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 Ferdinand is in the game and, yes, those vehicles did spend most of their time moving around on trains or being abandoned along the route of withdrawal without a shot being fired in anger. The two remaining Ferdinands did finally make a last stand on the outskirts of Berlin so that's why Ferdi got included in the game. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Dare Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 (edited) And there comes another one...so there are no surmtigers in the east...and nbr205543 (my wrong) was captured in Nyékládháza Hungary and displayed at Kublinka tank museum due to magic? Do you know that Nyékládháza Hungary is 150km east from Pest? Do you at least know what was going on east of Budapest on October-November-December44?, could you now guess why the one that returned to Warsaw was the cast Iron prototype? do you know that on those days SturmTigers belong to the panzertruppen? as per wikipedia (such a good reference) it was captured by Soviet forces in the Elbe area in April 1945...so for you to select... really feed up... that reminds me a lot of when I argued about KV1Ss being in Bagration back in the days that CMRT was in the oven (even they were in1945 at the Oder...)... my answer here is the same...you are wrong...anyway I do hope the result will differ. Edited April 25, 2021 by Dan Dare 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akd Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 30 minutes ago, Dan Dare said: And there comes another one...so there are no surmtigers in the east...and nbr205543 (my wrong) was captured in Nyékládháza Hungary and displayed at Kublinka tank museum due to magic? Do you know that Nyékládháza Hungary is 150km east from Pest? Do you at least know what was going on east of Budapest on October-November-December44?, could you now guess why the one that returned to Warsaw was the cast Iron prototype? do you know that on those days SturmTigers belong to the panzertruppen? as per wikipedia (such a good reference) it was captured by Soviet forces in the Elbe area in April 1945...so for you to select... really feed up... that reminds me a lot of when I argued about KV1Ss being in Bagration back in the days that CMRT was in the oven (even they were in1945 at the Oder...)... my answer here is the same...you are wrong...anyway I do hope the result will differ. The problem is this picture is not from Hungary. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Dare Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 (edited) much to my favor...so it survived Budapest Don't know Russian...Elbe then? Edited April 25, 2021 by Dan Dare 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akd Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 (edited) It was never in Budapest. (Edit: if it was 250043) Edited April 25, 2021 by akd 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Dare Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 of 19 sturmtigers 2 had survive and one was captured by the russians...91 elefants were built and 2 make a stand... @akd you are wrong there were strumtigers shifted to Budapest in October 1944 there are transport records of it... http://downloads.sturmpanzer.com/Documents/BlogDocSets/DS105.pdf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akd Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 (edited) The captured Sturmtiger in the photo was never in Budapest. I am aware of the transport records despite you not previously linking the source. The 2 from Kp. 1000 in Warsaw were sent to Hungary (presumably the same two prototypes that had been there since August) then promptly returned via Warsaw to Sennelager. Almost seems like it was a mistake, because the entry saying they were sent to Hungary also says they will be returned. One didn’t make it back, but that is not the Sturmtiger in the photo. Edited April 25, 2021 by akd 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Dare Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 (edited) @akd and all your friends, again...much to my favor....so there were minimun 3 sturmtigers around...and unless they shifted sturmtigers to Budapest just for shightseeing...one did something over there on a hot spot and time I'm sure your intelligence is more than able to undestand the following: 1st- we are on a chat, sources are not commonly posted (unless somebody say you are wrong or to proof that somebody is wrong ) ...I said Sturmtigers were in the east front...you (not only you...the whole pack) said they not... 2nd- So, to proof it you post the same image I did posted and that one of your friends said was not proof of wether or not sturmtiger were on the eastern front...but yours not only shows russians inspecting one of the only two surviving Sturmtigers that was captured by them (with some russian hand writting and a stamp) it also shows some woodmaterial pilled...>>>>such a nice roadblock, i have just saw the rocks... 3rd- then you said it was not in Hungary, I though that you were telling Sturmtiger weren't in Hungary so I post some source showing sturmtiger were there. 4th- then you said that i'm wrong cause the one in the photo is not one of the 2 sturmtigers that where sent to Budapest (with one in doubt of being combat able, and you keep on saing there were 2 prototypes..of nineteen they built prototipes??, sorry but each nineteen were prototypes somehow...only one mild steel Last- if curious enough ,in the document I attached and that you said yo are aware of it, you will find that only one is GuBeisem... uhm... and also located the sturmtigers sent to Hungary in SturMörs 1000 line not in the Pz.Erst.Abt 500 line which got the one GuBeisem... So...finally...let me now try to undestand you....what are you trying to tell me, they were in the Eastern front or not? In case it was captured in the Elba area, I do really hope you could answer, cause maybe some funny hungarians too proud of their country had misslead me (surely)... cause after all the nonsense you (all of you)were appliying to proof sturmtigers weren't in the eastern front I´m starting to guess that surely the russian captured sturmtiger was soothing to the americans and crossed the Elba in a eastward direction while the russians arrived and the crew gave them the keys cause they love the russians...who knows......or maybe they run out of ammo or gas and runaway and then the russians saw it in the other side of the river and somehow managed to get it to their side of the river...or maybe it was crewed with some peace loving people that let the tank over there since february with a letter to however found it...>>>or the americans exchanged it for some vodka. but you know what....there were sturmtigers shifted to Budapest and the one in the photo was captured in the EASTERN FRONT. Edited April 25, 2021 by Dan Dare 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Dare Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 200...never in my live thougth I will be posting 200 things...time to go back to live... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbsapp Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 2 hours ago, Dan Dare said: much to my favor...so it survived Budapest Don't know Russian...Elbe then? The first pic: "King Tiger captured by the 3rd Army units at Regezen (to the West of Brandenburg)" The second pic: "Antitank fence built by Germans at the entrance to the city. Such installations were built across all roads to Berlin". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 (edited) I had a friend whose voluminous internet searches had convinced him without a shadow of a doubt that Nazis flew flying saucers in WWII. I'm not joking about this. He genuinely believed it. I think it unnerved him when, instead of trying to argue the point, I simply laughed in his face. Edited April 25, 2021 by MikeyD 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Dare Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 so you are like your friend...but instead of beliving in flying saucers you belive there were no sturmtigers in the east of the Elbe...go to see a doctor and safe your sanity...cause about your education i guess now it is too late to save it 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 (edited) 58 minutes ago, Dan Dare said: so you are like your friend...but instead of beliving in flying saucers you belive there were no sturmtigers in the east of the Elbe...go to see a doctor and safe your sanity...cause about your education i guess now it is too late to save it why are you being so obnoxious? I haven't seen AKD or ASL throw a single insult and yet every post of yours usually has one unnecessary taunt? ASL is pretty freakin knowledgeable. Scary kind of knowledgeable. If you have something to show him wrong I am sure he'd love to know as he is always looking for new sources. Calm down and trade source info but keep tossing the insults and BF is gonna give you the timeout you are working so hard to earn Edited April 25, 2021 by sburke 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Dare Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 (edited) Really, are you serious...did I insult sb?...don't think so...and not to AKD or ASL for sure even if i do disagree strongly with their aproach...one cause aproach like "I know better, and you have to prove it" and the other cause just want to proof I'm mistaken...and easy task by the way...and that AKD, who is a living souce on ww2 had proved it already to me in few days ago...I do seriusly enjoyed the discussion about captured russian smg and ejoyed it a lot...and learned even more. looking at the post you are attaching i guess somebody that had a point on using a poor friend sickness to sent somehow, or imply, a message to somebody, or some other intention I could not fairly see, so as I really did not get the gallantry of that act and as all of us are a little bit crazy I just recomend friendly to him to visit an specialist, thats all. if you are thinking on my reference to the lost education, well maybe is better if I explain it a little bit, i did mean that his aproximation to the reason of elefants are in and sturmtigers out its not passing a simple calculation...2 of 91 is a 2.2%...just 1 of 19 is a 5% (and there were traces of 4, 2 almost confirmed by now actively acting inthe eastern front)...not to talk about weigth of shells or explosives...(1 shoots is around 35 times in weight that of the 88s,w of explosives around 100 times?) If after the evidence they themselves have thrown of the captured sturmtiger with the translation of the russian nicely done by dsap, (wich was the same photo I initially posted with wrong references I asumed, and was lectured that photos are somehow not a valid reference) and the transportation record of two tigers (which I was iguess mistakenly acussed of witholding ¿? to be told inmediatly that he got that source), and being none of those two the GuBeisem Sturmtiger (wich was other of the great arguments gaily throw here by someone) and one allegillaby remaining in Hungary (that of course, cause it goes against sb point of view, surely was a mistaken on the record...you known anybody could miss one Sturmtiger while counting two) I guess we will surely convince anyone that the sturmtigers weren't in the eastern front, or that they where not that relevant just by telling those arguments time and again...you know...at least BF said that if he recall it correctly just one and that it just shoot 7 times , quite more educated approach...so know we got 2 confirmed the BF and the Kubinka ...the 10% of the production..ah!....and one on vacations on Hungary in October 44 that we don't know were it have ended..and you are asking for sources...well...guess no more is needed Please, do not heasitate to contact BF if you see somebody trasspasing the line...I have myself done it in the past to stop some hot stuff around. thank you for the intention of your lecturing...but I do not think is applicable...not here and not to those respecfull gentlemen (me insulting AKD...you must be really kidding my friend...he had prove me he is quite a source on ww2 Heer with just one conversation...when I or sb else post I'm waiting his reply to learn....ASL..well...not any firm opinion yet at least not as strong as mine with AKD, but never this could mean I do not respect him and even maybe played some of his scenarios...but I'm quite special on that regard and always modify everything to my like so didn't followed him on that matter) Edited April 25, 2021 by Dan Dare 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomm Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 Some Sturmtigering. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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