Here is What I Dont Understand about BF?

[Bulletpoint]

11 hours ago, MikeyD said:

That seems to be some people's attitude toward CM. For all that they claim to 'hate' the product they keep returning, keep playing and keep demanding more.

I can't recall ever seeing anyone on this forum claiming they "hate" CM. Dissatisfaction with parts of it, sure.

[General Jack Ripper]

15 hours ago, MikeyD said:

Steve once mentioned he prefers to play RT. I prefer to play RT. RT is there for people who like to play as an 'interactive war movie'. as opposed to a '3-D animated board game'. If you're on the chat board reminiscing about ASL you're probably a '3-D animated board game' type.

If it's an interactive war movie you're looking for, then playing WEGO with the ability to really get up close and personal with the camera, and also watch cool action on instant replay should be the motivating factor. Your statement here doesn't make sense.

Be honest. Playing in realtime mode requires you to separate yourself from the minute detail to maintain overall situational awareness.
Unless you prefer playing with little more than a platoon at a time.

Everyone I see who records gameplay in real time is forced to remain in a birds-eye view, with maybe a brief zoom into a key piece of action before being forced to zoom back out to maintain awareness. If your idea of an interactive war movie is to watch unit icons march across a field, maybe you are the one looking for an animated 3d board game.

Edited September 24, 2019 by General Jack Ripper

[Bud Backer]

3 hours ago, Bulletpoint said:

I can't recall ever seeing anyone on this forum claiming they "hate" CM. Dissatisfaction with parts of it, sure.

No, they just do backseat coding and business management instead. 

[A Canadian Cat]

22 minutes ago, Bud Backer said:

No, they just do backseat coding and business management instead. 

There is that. One thing that I think does happen is we read people unhappy about thing X and other people unhappy about thing Y then more people who totally love X and Y. Then there are the people that never want to let thier dislike of thing Z go. The some total of the opinions for "improvement" are conflicting and scattered.

In the end we are lucky that we have Steve to pick and choose things to do according to a coherent vision.

[Bud Backer]

Yes. Though that is unlikely to be recognized. After all there should be daily updates on moving a bolt 3 microns on a model. Not that that would satisfy anyone. 

Edited September 24, 2019 by Bud Backer

[danfrodo]

we are playing a real time fixed-pause game, which is greatly superior to RT or RT pausable.  I used to play Assault Squad.  I'd engaged in one area and come back to find some other area w everyone dead and no idea it even happened.  No replays sucks.

[Bud Backer]

8 minutes ago, danfrodo said:

we are playing a real time fixed-pause game, which is greatly superior to RT or RT pausable.  I used to play Assault Squad.  I'd engaged in one area and come back to find some other area w everyone dead and no idea it even happened.  No replays sucks.

Had the same experience myself with assault squad. It was painful at times. 

I’m sure RT can be fun, but like anything, it has advantages and disadvantages. Can’t imagine the frustration of a battalion level RT battle.

Edited September 24, 2019 by Bud Backer

[landser]

On 9/23/2019 at 1:23 PM, 76mm said:

More or less; the resolution with the GoG version is better than what I could get without it, and acceptable, but I still can't get full-width 1920x1080 without at least slight stretching.  The stretching is especially noticeable and I will have to see if I prefer playing with no stretching and a narrower window or slight stretching and full-width.

Thanks for the reply,  I was wondering how it went in the end.

 

Has there been some indication that one or the other system is to be dropped? Or is the speculation based on reducing the workload going forward? Something else?

I'm another who would be disappointed if WEGO were dropped, but as it's such a fantastic system for this sort of game I can't imagine Battlefront would consider it. Switching from tactical genius to nervous spectator every few minutes never gets old. Aside from all of the other things that make WEGO great, like endless replays from any angle, it's a system of action and consequence. It forces you to live with your decisions. I joked once that RT is eraser mode, allowing the player to quickly abort blunders, but TBF my time spent in real time is limited, and certainly it requires skill to actually play scenarios of any size this way. Fair play to those who choose this route, but personally I can't imagine Combat Mission without WEGO. 

[DougPhresh]

6 hours ago, Bud Backer said:

Yes. Though that is unlikely to be recognized. After all there should be daily updates on moving a bolt 3 microns on a model. Not that that would satisfy anyone. 

I know this is hyperbole, but the community has been exceedingly patient with missed deadlines and a major patch breaking infantry behavior for a year.

[benpark]

2 hours ago, landser said:

Has there been some indication that one or the other system is to be dropped? Or is the speculation based on reducing the workload going forward? Something else?

No. It is not a real thing. Demonstrably false, with reasons further up the thread.

Another telephone round has begun.

[Michael Emrys]

21 minutes ago, benpark said:

Another telephone round has begun.

People tend more often to repeat what is sensational rather than what is reasonable. It's more thrilling. It's why some people are fanatical believers in flying saucers, the Bermuda Triangle and suchlike.

Michael

[BletchleyGeek]

1 hour ago, benpark said:

 

Another telephone round has begun

Shameless musical plug

[BFCElvis]

28 minutes ago, BletchleyGeek said:

Shameless musical plug

I never heard that version before. Awesome. Thanks.

[BFCElvis]

3 hours ago, DougPhresh said:

I know this is hyperbole, but the community has been exceedingly patient with missed deadlines and a major patch breaking infantry behavior for a year.

I agree. I have been on this forum for 20 years now. I have seen it be overflowing with sycophants. I have seen it overflowing with "haters". Currently I see it as having reasonable people right now. Critics are essential to any business. To not pay attention to them can be fatal. That isn't to say they are always (or even frequently) right. But if they give you pause to self assess it's worth it. Haters, rather than critics, are easy enough to spot and easily ignored. 

[benpark]

Quote

The Beat had previously appeared on the Caddyshack original motion picture soundtrack alongside Murray in 1979.

You just wrapped up the whole shebang for me right there (with that Nerves link), BletchleyGeek.

-Telephone reference.

-Caddyshack reference.

-Post-punk take-away.

That's 4-D chess, my man. Nicely done.

Edited September 25, 2019 by benpark

[Dynaman216]

On 9/23/2019 at 10:26 AM, landser said:

I'm wondering if 76mm and/or Dynaman had any luck getting the resolution squared away?

Same as 76mm, it can use a higher resolution but it keeps the square layout no matter what I choose.  Being able to use the screen real estate (minues the borders) was nice but the graphics were too primitive for me to stick to it.  

[Warts 'n' all]

5 hours ago, BFCElvis said:

 Haters, rather than critics, are easy enough to spot and easily ignored. 

Spot on, Declan.

[RockinHarry]

Shoe doesn´t fit me personally, but I´d guess "haters" sooner or later left here or remain inactive after leaving their steam off. I threw that RT and WEGO separation into discussion for quite some specific (technical) reasons and that for any possible future game engine version only. Otherwise it doesn´t concern me really as I´d always remain with WEGO anyway, neglecting the RT option. If I see a "possible" problem, I make notice of it. If I have a specific problem, I try on my own solutions, before asking to fix or patch something. So as long  the game remains open for bits of modding, I have no serious concerns and remain with enyoing the game as is or as envisioned by the developer. Now getting back to some more modding.

[Sgt Joch]

23 hours ago, DougPhresh said:

I know this is hyperbole, but the community has been exceedingly patient with missed deadlines and a major patch breaking infantry behavior for a year.

Let's not forget that since CMSF came out in mid-2007, BFC has released 7 base games, 6 modules (7 after R2V), 3 game upgrades, 2 battle packs, 1 vehicle pack as well as numerous free patches. That works out to something new roughly every 7-8 months. I don't think anyone can accuse them of slacking off

 

Edited September 25, 2019 by Sgt Joch

[Warts 'n' all]

10 hours ago, RockinHarry said:

Shoe doesn´t fit me personally, 

No, I don't think Elvis or anyone else has you marked down as a "hater". 

[Pelican Pal]

You have an issue like the Engine 4 upgrade (paid) essentially breaking infantry interaction with fortifications for months on end. Not that fortifications are that fleshed out in CM, but the community response was very measured. "Haters" as a group seem largely fictitious outside of like 1-2 actual people. Especially so if you ignore the time period directly around the original CM:SF release. Which I can sympathize with to an extant because man... that release.

What CM is, is a game system that is pretty close to being fantastic but is often just pretty good. Which is in many ways is more frustrating than if it were just crap.

- There is a powerful scenario editor that lets you do a lot

However, it is just weak enough to prevent designers from easily doing really interesting things.

-  CM has pretty solid 1:1 design

Except that commitment to 1:1 can often result in unrealistic situations. Like personnel in a half-track sitting bolt upright when hunkering down slightly would save them from being hit, or weird LOS issues.

- CM has some fun campaigns

Yet, with rare exceptions, they don't feel particularly connected.

- CM has pretty good content

If you are interested in a very specific setting/time period you are likely going to have to wait years to see it.

 

CM does a lot right, which makes what it does poorly all the more annoying.
 

Edited September 26, 2019 by Pelican Pal

[76mm]

21 hours ago, Sgt Joch said:

I don't think anyone can accuse them of slacking off

No, but they could be accused of biting off more than they could chew.  The long wait for the infantry patch is one example, and at the risk of sounding like a broken record, a gap of six years between the release of a base game and the first module for it is...well...very lame.

Edited September 26, 2019 by 76mm

[herr_oberst]

On 9/26/2019 at 1:54 PM, 76mm said:

No, but they could be accused of biting off more than they could chew.  The long wait for the infantry patch is one example, and at the risk of sounding like a broken record, a gap of six years between the release of a base game and the first module for it is...well...very lame.

Hmm... would I be more happy if BFC stuck with working only on the period and theaters I am interested in?  Most certainly!

Are there other advocates/client/customers who are interested in other periods and theaters than I?  Certainly.

Should BFC pursue other ventures (i.e., stuff we'll never see as John Q Public) for non-gamers who see the value of a tactical sim that could be tailored for their needs, and pay potentially much larger dollars for it?  Certainly.

Should Steve and Charles do what they want with their company, directing its investments and time?  Certainly.

Sometimes, reality is a b@#$h.

 

[76mm]

4 hours ago, herr_oberst said:

Should BFC pursue other ventures (i.e., stuff we'll never see as John Q Public) for non-gamers who see the value of a tactical sim that could be tailored for their needs, and pay potentially much larger dollars for it?  Certainly.

Should Steve and Charles do what they want with their company, directing its investments and time?  Certainly.

Sometimes, reality is a b@#$h.

But of course I've never said that BF should do anything other than what they want, or should choose to focus their business model on satisfying my particular preferences.

What I have said is that when game developers fail to provide content that particular users want for several years, those users lose interest in the product (at least I have).  In my view, not providing an initial module for a base game for several years after its release--and even then with most content recycled from earlier games--is a clear indication of BF's priorities.  That's fine, and I understand the business logic, but when their priorities diverge so significantly from mine, it is time to for me to move on (or I should say "move back", given that I plan to spend more time with ancient games such as ASL, SP, and CMBB).

While I expect that the module for CMRT will be released in the next year or two (making it 6 or 7 years after release of CMRT), at this point I don't expect to ever see games covering the Eastern Front in earlier periods, which IMHO are more the interesting periods. The war on the Western front is more or less fully covered by this point (other than the last few months and North Africa), so to provide similar coverage for the Eastern front BF would have to release three East Front games in a row ('43, '43, '41), which is not going to happen. 

[Pelican Pal]

If there was one thing I would appreciate is BFC taking a more "early access" approach to the modules. I generally don't touch the campaigns or really even the pre-made scenarios. So having quicker access to just the units in a module would be great. I'm sure the portion of Berlin being modeled is probably eating a ton of time for the CM:RT module but I couldn't care less about it. Essentially the unit pack from CM:BN but writ large.

What game has the most content in it anyway?

I'm guessing Fortress Italy '43 to '45 with the Brits, Italians, Americans, and Germans. A full year worth of weather. Its too bad the Soviets didn't make it to the Italian front.

Edited October 4, 2019 by Pelican Pal
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